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  • #61
    Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
    A blockade of Gaza by Israel is not unreasonable...
    Okay, I'm with you now.


    Does a blockade occur in international waters or the waters of the "entity" being blockaded?
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Prince Asher View Post
      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/698c8b84-6...44feab49a.html

      Is the blockade legal?

      Israel insists that under international law, it gets to say what goes in and out of its borders, and has a sovereign right to decide whether to impose economic sanctions on any enemy state or entity. But Sari Bashi, a lawyer and executive director of the human rights group Gisha, calls the restrictions illegal. Ms Bashi says that Israel – despite its withdrawal of civilians and soldiers from Gaza in 2005 – still controls the strip because it dictates who and what goes in and out, and is violating international humanitarian law by punishing civilians under its control for acts committed by militants.

      That's an interesting opinion.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by Wezil View Post
        Okay, I'm with you now.


        Does a blockade occur in international waters or the waters of the "entity" being blockaded?

        Both, normally.
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        • #64
          The problem NYE is that what Israel has done can be considered an act of war against the nations to which those ships were registered. Israel can't just go boarding other country's ships to check them out unless those ships are in Israeli waters, disputed waters or there is some sort of international agreement to allow such.
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Wezil View Post
            The problem NYE is that what Israel has done can be considered an act of war against the nations to which those ships were registered. Israel can't just go boarding other country's ships to check them out unless those ships are in Israeli waters, disputed waters or there is some sort of international agreement to allow such.

            I think they can, having declared a blockade. That is the point of a blockade.

            Yes, the nations of the affected ships can be unhappy. They may even go to war. They have in the past.
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            • #66
              Did the Navy board Soviet vessels during the Cuban Missile Crisis?
              "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
              "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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              • #67
                The USN used force to prevent Soviet merchants from getting to Cuba.
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                • #68
                  I believe the Soviets turned back.
                  Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wan's apprentice.

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                  • #69
                    NYE - I've been looking for an expert opinion saying so (sorry I don't accept Israel's claim). I can't find one. Can you?


                    AS - No, but that was the threat and the Soviets made clear they would consider it an act of war. There was a reason it was called a "crisis".
                    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                    • #70
                      The Marcula was boarded Oct. 26, 1962 by the USS Joseph P. Kennedy:

                      "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                      "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Albert Speer View Post
                        The Marcula was boarded Oct. 26, 1962 by the USS Joseph P. Kennedy:


                        A Lebanese freighter.

                        Not what you asked.
                        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Garth Vader View Post
                          I believe the Soviets turned back.

                          Eventually. After confrontations with the USN by some merchants.
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                          • #73
                            s the blockade legal?
                            But Sari Bashi, a lawyer and executive director of the human rights group Gisha, calls the restrictions illegal. Ms Bashi says that Israel – despite its withdrawal of civilians and soldiers from Gaza in 2005 – still controls the strip because it dictates who and what goes in and out, and is violating international humanitarian law by punishing civilians under its control for acts committed by militants.


                            actually, Israel decides what goes in and out of it's border with Gaza, a right of any sovereign country. Egypt has a similar policy in it's border with Gaza, thus Israel can hardly be considered to have the sole decision-making ability. As to the naval route, this is a part of an ongoing conflict with Hamas...

                            ...stupid government ... sigh...
                            urgh.NSFW

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                            • #74
                              Apparently, it was chartered by the Soviet Union but I have no idea how that maritime stuff works... Chartering means what? The article on wikipedia for chartering is not clear.
                              "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                              "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                              • #75
                                What a complete ****-up...

                                Activists on board a six-ship flotilla carrying aid to the Gaza Strip tried to lynch the Israel Navy commandos who boarded their Turkish-flagged boat early Monday, Israel Defense Forces sources told Haaretz on Monday afternoon. At least nine people were killed and several more were wounded in the fighting that erupted aboard one of the ships.

                                The IDF confirmed that at least seven Navy commandos had been wounded, two of them seriously, in a fight which apparently broke out after activists tried to seize their weapons.

                                The commandos, who intercepted the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara after it ignored orders to turn back from its course to Gaza, said they had encountered violent resistance from activists armed with sticks and knives. According to the commandos, the activists threw one of the soldiers from the upper deck to the lower after they boarded. The organizers of the flotilla said the troops opened fire first.

                                An Israeli military spokesman said some of the commandos were equipped with paintball guns but the non-lethal weapons were not enough against activists who charged in with batons.

                                "They had pistols with live ammunition as back-up, to defend themselves," he said. The IDF said it had confiscated two pistols from the boat.

                                One of the commandos told reporters he descended by rope from a helicopter onto one of the six ships in the convoy and was immediately attacked by a group of people waiting for them.

                                "They beat us with metal sticks and knives," he said. "There was live fire at some point against us."

                                A Reuters cameraman on the Israel Navy ship Kidon, sailing close to the convoy, said IDF commanders monitoring the operation were surprised by the strong resistance put up by the pro-Palestinian activists.

                                One of the commandos said some of the soldiers were stripped of their helmets and equipment and a several were tossed from the top deck to a lower deck, forcing them to jump into the sea to escape.

                                "They jumped me, hit me with clubs and bottles and stole my rifle," one of the commandos said. "I pulled out my pistol and had no choice but to shoot."


                                The soldiers said they were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him. A senior IDF field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.

                                The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a "life-threatening situation".

                                "Navy fighters took control of six ships that tried to violate the naval blockade [of the Gaza Strip]," said a statement from the IDF. "During the takeover, the soldiers encountered serious physical violence by the protesters, who attacked them with live fire."

                                Elite troops from Shayetet 13, a naval commando unit, boarded the protest boats at around 4:00 A.M. Al Jazeera reported Monday morning that the Gaza aid flotilla had changed course to avoid a confrontation with Israeli warships.

                                Some 700 pro-Palestinian activists were on the boats, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators. The boats were carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid and supplies to Gaza.


                                The Israel Navy had been operating under the assumption that the activists manning the boats would not heed their calls to turn around, and Israeli troops had been prepared to board the ships to steer them away from the Gaza shores toward the Israeli port city of Ashdod.


                                source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ch-us-1.293089
                                "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
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