At first I stood by and did nothing, but now I must declare war on 'Glee'

[Asher]

So general consensus is ok for U2, but not Green Day . Just admit your minority opinion on "American Idiot" and move on. Besides saying there wasn't much competition in the 2000s and then holding up a 1990s song is just kinda amusing.

But it was in competition with many decades, not other 1990s songs.

And I'm not exactly in the minority opinion, most people I know actually can't stand the album. The only people I did know who professed a love for it are you and my teenage cousins.

Green Day in the 90s was good (according to you), but in 2000s it isn't because.... they added preachy messages?

In the 1990s it was their genuine sentiment. In the 2000s it as a method to sell records. They're old, married men with kids now driving SUVs and taking their kids to soccer practice...but in their songs they're pretending like they're rebellious teenagers. "Dookie" is a far better album in every way to "American Idiot".

A constant weaving storyline makes an album predictable? That's a new one. So "Tommy" by The Who was predictable?

It makes it more predictable. Your point was it made it unpredictable (or else why bring up the 'rock opera' part?). And yes, it should be obvious that this is the case. You have a better feeling of what the next song will be given the prior song when they're all linked.

This is just amazingly amusing as it seemingly assumes that 90s Green Day wasn't pop-punk. Seriously, 2000s Green Day can be said to branch into more genres than simply staying in pop-punk. The song "Jesus of Suburbia" itself weaves in and out of slightly different genres.

I'm curious, what genres does Jesus of Suburbia branch into?

For the record, "Jesus of Suburbia" is simultaneously Green Day's most pretentious song on that album as well as being the worst.

[ZEE]

Somebody forgot to put C-Murder on that list

[Asher]

More of a wake up call to the "intentionally targeted demographic" to stop being a bunch of apathetic losers (like the band itself was in the 90s), but have fun anyways.

Anyone who takes a wake-up call from a pop song is part of the very problem they're preaching about.

Maybe Green Day is smarter than I give them credit for, and they appreciate that irony. But a big-name musical act on a big-name corporate label owned by ****ing Warner Brothers (a big media company) whining about media influencing people is ****ing gold, isn't it?

It's this fundamental insincerity that bothers me. If you're going to pretend to be rebels, go indie. They intentionally have made their songs even more poppy over years to become more mainstream while their message has increasingly become anti-mainstream. It should drive you nuts, why doesn't it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

And I'm not exactly in the minority opinion, most people I know actually can't stand the album. The only people I did know who professed a love for it are you and my teenage cousins.

Talk about a selection bias! Critical acclaim can't mean anything, can it?

In the 1990s it was their genuine sentiment. In the 2000s it as a method to sell records. They're old, married men with kids now driving SUVs and taking their kids to soccer practice...but in their songs they're pretending like they're rebellious teenagers. "Dookie" is a far better album in every way to "American Idiot".

Seriously. Talking about sitting around doing nothing is a better message and less concerned with making money?

It makes it more predictable. Your point was it made it unpredictable (or else why bring up the 'rock opera' part?). And yes, it should be obvious that this is the case. You have a better feeling of what the next song will be given the prior song when they're all linked.

You have an idea of what the next song will be about, but the songs being linked in a full story was something entirely unexpected and shocked just about everything.

I'm curious, what genres does Jesus of Suburbia branch into?

For the record, "Jesus of Suburbia" is simultaneously Green Day's most pretentious song on that album as well as being the worst.

Goes from pop-punk, touches into ballad, and straight up rock, and each of the mini-songs are far different from the others.

It is also an incredible song, and of course, got a substantial amount of critical praise (which of course you would trumpet for U2, but not Green Day ).

[Al B. Sure!]

Somebody forgot to put C-Murder on that list

That's cause C-Murder is serving a life sentence for killing one of his two fans.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They intentionally have made their songs even more poppy over years to become more mainstream

I'm pretty sure they didn't have any expectation of becoming mainstream again when they released "American Idiot". Especially after the thud that was "Warning".

[Asher]

Talk about a selection bias! Critical acclaim can't mean anything, can it?

It doesn't have critical acclaim...it's at 79 on metacritic ("generally favourable reviews").

Seriously. Talking about sitting around doing nothing is a better message and less concerned with making money?

Who says it's a "better message"? Music is about expression, and Dookie did express what was going on in their lives at the time. The music at the time was relevant and interesting. It was a better album musically.

You have an idea of what the next song will be about, but the songs being linked in a full story was something entirely unexpected and shocked just about everything.

I think we're talking about different things. I do think it was unexpected for Green Day to become pretentious and try their hand at a rock opera, but musically...once you heard one song, it became very predictable.

Goes from pop-punk, touches into ballad, and straight up rock, and each of the mini-songs are far different from the others.

I'm just going to let this slide. I love how "ballad" is a genre.

It is also an incredible song, and of course, got a substantial amount of critical praise (which of course you would trumpet for U2, but not Green Day ).

You'll find I am very condemning of critics. I've done it many, many times before.

The difference is it's unusual to find a list that doesn't put "One" as one of the greatest songs. When there's that kind of consensus, the opinion of critics cease to matter.

There's not critical consensus on American Idiot.

You know why "Jesus of Suburbia" is so bad? Because it's pretentious. Utterly pretentious. There's been interviews where Billy Joe was bragging about how the key changes twice in the song. It's 9 ****ing minutes long. There's essentially 4 or 5 smaller songs, they just put it into one ****ing title and suddenly it's an epic single song.

It probably impresses the hell out of simpletons and mainstream critics, but to me it just annoyed me. Combining 4-5 short songs into one track and calling it epic is not epic, it's ****ing annoying.

[Al B. Sure!]

hey AAHZ, you ever see this video?



it's literally C-Murder shooting up a place.

in the video, C Murder enters a club and is denied entry because he wouldn’t let security search him. He leaves out and returns not less than 15 seconds later and fires a gun at the club owner and security.

Unrelated to the beating and murder of the 16 year old for which he is serving time.

[Asher]

I'm pretty sure they didn't have any expectation of becoming mainstream again when they released "American Idiot". Especially after the thud that was "Warning".

On the contrary, they intentionally wrote their songs to become more mainstream after "Warning".

American Idiot is filled with classic poppy hooks. It's more pop, less punk. The only think punk about "American Idiot" is some power chords and groan-worthy preachy lyrics.

It's closer to Avril Lavigne and Sum 41 than it is any true rock group.

[SlowwHand]

Eminem has two mentions... I like Eminem but he does not deserve 2 songs on the top 500 of all time.

He doesn't deserve crap. As bad as it sounds to say, he gives rap a bad name.

[Asher]

hey AAHZ, you ever see this video?



it's literally C-Murder shooting up a place.



Unrelated to the beating and murder of the 16 year old for which he is serving time.

And you wonder why rap doesn't get listed on those kinds of lists...

[Al B. Sure!]

Asher and Imran, you two are arguing like punk rock is actually music and not just screaming unintelligible lyrics.

[Al B. Sure!]

Asher: there's a number of rappers on that list. Eminem, 2pac, Grandmaster Flash, Dr. Dre, NWA, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys.

And C-Murder is not a real rapper. His claim to fame is being Master P's brother and literally killing murdering people. I can't name a single C-Murder song, though I'm sure his one living fan (the 16 year old was beaten and killed by C-Murder), AAHZ, knows his songs.

[Asher]

Asher and Imran, you two are arguing like punk rock is actually music and not just screaming unintelligible lyrics.

I'm not a big fan of punk rock, but it was influential in many ways.

The best music scene right now is alt-rock or post-punk-revival.

[Al B. Sure!]

Only modern rock I like is Jack Johnson, Coldplay, Maroon 5... stuff like that.