At first I stood by and did nothing, but now I must declare war on 'Glee'

[Al B. Sure!]

I said it doesn't matter, but it is music.

Opera doesn't matter either, but it is music.

Rap isn't even music.

Why does it not matter? This list purports to be the greatest songs of all time. Now I can understand not including Beethoven and Bach but the assumption is modern music, music designed for mass market consumption, which everything from the invention of the phonograph has been. The list includes a number of doo wop and blues songs from the early 1950's but not contemporaneous singers like Sinatra or Nat King Cole. And Bobby Darin gets one mention.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"American Idiot" was a fantastic album for 13 year olds from coast to coast in America.

It was far too poppy, far too predictable, far too preachy, and far too bland. Every song has exactly the same song structure. Their new album is even worse. My God.

Hell, even "Pitchfork", of all publications, liked it. And considering your mentioning of Rolling Stone...

In 2009 Kerrang! named American Idiot the best album of the decade,[18] NME ranked it #60 in a similar list,[19] and Rolling Stone ranked it 22nd.[20] Rolling Stone also listed "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" and "American Idiot" among the 100 best songs of the 2000s, at #65 and #47 respectively.[21][22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idiot

(and FWIW, I'm not sure how a pop-punk rock opera can be utterly predictable... considering it's never actually happened before... that and bland is the last thing I'd use to describe the album)

[Asher]

Blues. Can't forget Blues. This is a Rock list though.

Blues

Critical component of rock and roll.

[Asher]

Why does it not matter? This list purports to be the greatest songs of all time. Now I can understand not including Beethoven and Bach but the assumption is modern music, music designed for mass market consumption, which everything from the invention of the phonograph has been. The list includes a number of doo wop and blues songs from the early 1950's but not contemporaneous singers like Sinatra or Nat King Cole. And Bobby Darin gets one mention.

That's because Sinatra and Nat King Cole had boring songs.

Same reason Michael Buble isn't on the list. For good reason.

[Al B. Sure!]

It's amazing how many artists are not included in this list by the way. No Lionel Ritchie/Commodores, no O'Jays, no Teddy Pendergrass/Blue Notes, no Ike Turner, no Spinners, no Kool & the Gang, no Barry White, no Ohio Players...

I can go on and on.

[Asher]

Hell, even "Pitchfork", of all publications, liked it. And considering your mentioning of Rolling Stone...

In 2009 Kerrang! named American Idiot the best album of the decade,[18] NME ranked it #60 in a similar list,[19] and Rolling Stone ranked it 22nd.[20] Rolling Stone also listed "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" and "American Idiot" among the 100 best songs of the 2000s, at #65 and #47 respectively.[21][22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idiot

I really don't care about Rolling Stone. It's one of MANY lists that put 'One' as one of the best songs. I'm talking general consensus, not just one list.

I also don't care if 'American Idiot' is widely held as one of the best songs/albums of the 2000s, because to be honest in the 2000s there wasn't much competition.

(and FWIW, I'm not sure how a pop-punk rock opera can be utterly predictable... considering it's never actually happened before... that and bland is the last thing I'd use to describe the album)

Bland is THE word to describe it. Simple melodies + hamfisted metaphors + preachy messages + identical song structures. The fact that it's a "rock opera" (I prefer the term concept album) doesn't make it less predictable, it makes it MORE predictable. Every song is connected on the same kind of message/wavelength, which doesn't make it unpredictable.

Plus, pop-punk is ALWAYS predictable. The whole ****ing genre is a money-making formula. If you understand where 'punk' music comes from, you'll understand why the concept of pop-punk is mind blowingly stupid.

pop-punk exists because it lets teenagers feel like they're being rebellious while all listening to the same music. It's one step above frickin emo.

Blink 182
Sum 41
2000s Green Day

I have no words to express my disgust with those bands.

[Asher]

It's amazing how many artists are not included in this list by the way. No Lionel Ritchie/Commodores, no O'Jays, no Teddy Pendergrass/Blue Notes, no Ike Turner, no Spinners, no Kool & the Gang, no Barry White, no Ohio Players...

I can go on and on.

You could but you'd be wasting your time.

All of those people don't belong on the list.

[Al B. Sure!]

What standard puts Weezer on the list but not Lionel Ritchie? Lionel Ritchie is unbelievably more popular than Weezer could ever hope to be.

[Asher]

Things I look for in music:

1) Genuine Emotion w/ meaningful lyrics
2) Complexity

If it's lacking in one, I'd like it to have more in the other.

The reason I can't stand pop-punk is it completely lacks complexity, and the only emotion it has is bluster and stereotypical, repetitive angsty counter-establishment bull****. If it's not about spilling apple juice and parental acceptance (Blink 182, "Adam's Song"), it's about how mainstream America can't possibly be as smart as a bunch of aging rockers who are pretending like they're still teenagers (Green Day, "American Idiot"). The emotion in pop-punk is so formulaic, so intentionally targeted at their demographic that it ceases being a true expression of emotion and is instead simply a device used to sell their music and project their image. In short, it's insincere.

[Asher]

What standard puts Weezer on the list but not Lionel Ritchie? Lionel Ritchie is unbelievably more popular than Weezer could ever hope to be.

It's not a popularity contest, Alby.

Hell, "One" wasn't even a big hit song when it came out. It didn't hit #1 anywhere.

FWIW, Weezer isn't that great a band and their only song in the list is BARELY on the list.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I really don't care about Rolling Stone. It's one of MANY lists that put 'One' as one of the best songs. I'm talking general consensus, not just one list.

I also don't care if 'American Idiot' is widely held as one of the best songs/albums of the 2000s, because to be honest in the 2000s there wasn't much competition.

So general consensus is ok for U2, but not Green Day . Just admit your minority opinion on "American Idiot" and move on. Besides saying there wasn't much competition in the 2000s and then holding up a 1990s song is just kinda amusing.

Bland is THE word to describe it. Simple melodies + hamfisted metaphors + preachy messages + identical song structures.

Green Day in the 90s was good (according to you), but in 2000s it isn't because.... they added preachy messages?

The fact that it's a "rock opera" (I prefer the term concept album) doesn't make it less predictable, it makes it MORE predictable. Every song is connected on the same kind of message/wavelength, which doesn't make it unpredictable.

A constant weaving storyline makes an album predictable? That's a new one. So "Tommy" by The Who was predictable?

pop-punk exists because it lets teenagers feel like they're being rebellious while all listening to the same music. It's one step above frickin emo.

2000s Green Day

This is just amazingly amusing as it seemingly assumes that 90s Green Day wasn't pop-punk. Seriously, 2000s Green Day can be said to branch into more genres than simply staying in pop-punk. The song "Jesus of Suburbia" itself weaves in and out of slightly different genres.

[Asher]

How can you read these lyrics and not roll your eyes?

Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind **** America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the ****** America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along to the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

[Al B. Sure!]

I stand corrected on Ike Turner.

033 - Ike And Tina Turner - River Deep Mountain High.mp3

[Imran Siddiqui]

it's about how mainstream America can't possibly be as smart as a bunch of aging rockers who are pretending like they're still teenagers (Green Day, "American Idiot"). The emotion in pop-punk is so formulaic, so intentionally targeted at their demographic that it ceases being a true expression of emotion

More of a wake up call to the "intentionally targeted demographic" to stop being a bunch of apathetic losers (like the band itself was in the 90s), but have fun anyways.

[Al B. Sure!]

Eminem has two mentions... I like Eminem but he does not deserve 2 songs on the top 500 of all time.