Science has never been this much fun!

[Pekka]

Why is it, that universities host some of the WORST superiors EVER? No social skills what so ever and even worse management skills? Scientific management, Taylorism, etc. Like total douchebags on a powertrip. Some of them actually think that being a professor is equal to having a big penis, while all I see is a little boy who got kicked in the head as a kid a little too much and left from the playground by other kids and now it's payback time.

Check this out. I've been doing my PhD studies for.... effectively, disregarding my sick leave due to brain tumor and stuff like that, so I've been doing it for 2 years. They usually are happy if you do it in 5 years, thrilled if in 3, which is more rare. Now, my dissertation is based on my own publications, articles that is. It includes conference articles that are exclusively listed a-tier by our own Uni, and journals, I've got in A+. Now I'm missing one good publications and it's a wrap. Or two of lesser publications. I've got 2 manuscripts ready to go, and 3rd on the way. My ****ing boss tells me that I'm now writing a monograph and gave me deadlines for it. I was told this two days ago. My deadline for a new monograph (starting over) is in two months. I've asked several time what the logic is, and if I've done something wrong, because this makes no sense.

So I'm required to basically write a dissertation first based on only a-level conferences/journals, IN two years. And just before getting there, to write a monograph in 2 months. So it's like I've written 2 dissertations in 2 years. Today, I almost totally blew up screaming, that what the **** is this ****, go and see if ANYONE in this department has graduated faster. I protested about this, and I was told that since he is my boss, he is giving me a task and as an employee I have to obey. So much for academic freedom, uh? "I order you, as your boss, to do your dissertation like this".

Pretty needless to say I'm going to the deans office next week and that since my term is up on June, that it won't be extended. So that was my dissertation. Time to look for another job. I'm not saying I'll punch his head off before I leave, that's certainly not what I'm saying.

[Ecofarm]

actually think that being a professor is equal to having a big penis

Nothing is equal to having a big penis.

[Pekka]

Except having two middle-sized penises.

[Pekka]

Nah, it's just a huge amount of frustration, throwing away 2 years of work which was good work, which paid me little to no money and for which I gave my all. All those nights writing papers for what? Frustrating. Well, that's an understatement.

[Ecofarm]

You're getting the Phd?

You should hang in there. I did my classes first, it took 2 years (inculding summers and a semester with 18 credits that I left before 'finals week' to speak at a conference in Europe).

Then I took vacation/thinking time (that took almost three years instead of a few months).

Then I went back, got my proposal accepted and passed my quals (that took a year instead of a few months).

Now I'll go do my research and finish writing my dissertation.



It's a long road, you should probably stick with it. Spend more time talking with your committee. It is unfortunate that your chairman is not communicating well with you. I have an economist as my chair, an entomologist and soil expert, a sociologist (gender), an ecologist (community based management) and an ethnobotanist on my committee and they are all greatly helpful and understanding. Multi-discipline for the win; it doesn't get all stuffy.

[MRT144]

Ecofarm, was it a conference on bragging about speaking at conferences.

[Pekka]

My situation is ridiculous. I simply cannot take it anymore, it's not healthy. I've been dragging on for quite a long time just because I thought it would be a shame to quit. Now I've realized there's more to life than few letters. And to spend it in constant state of frustration and unjust is just stupid at this point of my life.

This would be a different case should I have a committee. We don't do it like that in here. IN theory I should have a steering group, I should have my mentor, actually two of them. But I only have my professor, who is my boss and also the manager and director. So he is every position rolled into one single big **** off entity.

Not to mention I'm still getting paid less than I was promised IN THE JOB INTERVIEW TWO YEARS AGO. Ever since I've published articles, done some teaching, all kinds of crap that gives you a raise. Mine hasn't come and I've brought it up several times.

It's just not a stable situation anymore.

My only option is to a) Suffer for years to come and give my ass to some professor playing God or b) go and talk to dean.

I'd rather go talk to the dean and I'll be done because of it but at least I can leave with my head held high, sticking up for myself and not being a ***** and taking it all and asking for seconds. I'm a punching type of a guy. I punch people. If someone thinks they can get away with ****, they can't. Not with me they can't. I've got nothing to lose. I've got a short life expectancy and strong opinions and tired of getting **** thrown on me. I will talk to the dean. In fact I'll do my best to get a warning given to the douchebag, so that when it comes a time to view tenures, I know the record won't be clean for some people. ****, I think he tried to grab my ass one time, when I really think about it....

[Ben Kenobi]

Pekka, I left myself and came back. It is always harder to start back up rather then just pushing through.

[Ecofarm]

Ecofarm, was it a conference on bragging about speaking at conferences.

No, it was a conference on bragging about taking 18 credit hours of grad school (including a real killer on genetic modification techniques with a serious lab), leaving 2 weeks before the end of the semester and still getting all As and Bs.

Note, 18 credits of grad = 24 credits of undergrad.


Actually, it was about sustainable development and I spoke regarding Farming Systems Research and Extension, rapid rural appraisal, participatory methods and modeling/analysis software.



Anyways, I can't help myself. I was stationed at Ft. Bragg and part of me will always be there.

This would be a different case should I have a committee. We don't do it like that in here. IN theory I should have a steering group, I should have my mentor, actually two of them. But I only have my professor, who is my boss and also the manager and director. So he is every position rolled into one single big **** off entity.

My friend said the same thing about a university in Holland. I'm so happy to have 5 elite professors advising me in the exact disciplines I wanted (for my particular area of research) from all over the university. We are required to have a committee of at least 4 professors.

[Pekka]

Yeah well... it's not that the University lacks the intelligence or competence of how it should be done. There are rules. It's just that they are not followed in a strict manner. What I mean by this is that doctorate students are at the very low end of the food chain, and they have no rights. Some of them, like myself, are employed there. That means I should have basic employee rights, but when it comes to that, then you're just a student.

I emphasize that it's not that studies are difficult and take a lot of work. That's obvious. But we are in a constant breach of agreements. My workload gets bigger and bigger all the time, and yet my pay stays the same. Sure, I can always say, which I do, that I don't think this is one of my tasks, but since you get new terms that last 3 months per term, you're ****ed if you become difficult. I mean you are, if you have an ******* for a boss who fully exploits the situation, and my boss does. IF you had a boss that sort of was interested in his or her employees in other ways as well than pure resources, it would be different. That's what the rules are there for, to secure people's rights, so situations don't get out of the hand. Unfortunately they do.

Of course there's staff to help in situations like these. They are there just to be on your side. I went to see the head honcho of this department. I complained that my boss is violating our agreements on a regular basis, starting from the contract to other miscellaneous issues on a daily basis. So the head honcho asked a bunch of questions, zeroing in if I had been a victim of work abuse related to gender issues. It was a total wtf moment. Who CARES if I'm a man or a woman, these issues are not gender related! And after that, she was not interested about the breaches of agreements but said they want to keep students who have advanced well and it would be a pity to lose me. OK. Thanks for the help and advice.

I have no complaints of having to do a dissertation without guidance. Or that it is assumed to finish fast. I have complaints about work abuse. But when it comes to that, and you're at the bottom, you have no chance. So all I can do is go to the dean now and it won't probably do anything good for me except I get to tell what has happened and to let them know what kind of abuses are handed out, some of which might not be legal. Some are definitely illegal, but they do not concern me only, and I don't want to drag other people with me and get them trouble as well.

One thing is for sure. If you're at the bottom, there's no such things as employee rights, it's just a nice word. Unless you hire a lawyer that is or join a union. If you go solo, you're ****ed.

[Pekka]

Ok, few examples of work abuse.

First of all, we don't get paid OT. It's usual, Unis don't pay OT except in rare cases. But we are required to do OT, assigned work tasks, after hours. We are required to fill reports of our work related trips, say you have to sit in a train for 6 hours, you are assigned to work that 6 hours full and make a report of what work you did. I get motion sickness and am unable to do that, and regardless, you have an 8 hour day and go to meet a client or whatever, the trip takes 6 hours and the meeting 2 hours. The trip, however, usually takes like 10 or 12 hours, sometimes on weekends. You don't get paid for it. 0 euros. Usually there are costs that you have to cover yourself. Phone stuff, you pay yourself. If you come to a mandatory meeting at the work place from a distance, you pay for the trip yourself. Say you have to come to the Uni with a train, you pay for the trip even though you are ordered to come and you have a contract that says you work remote.

Then there's the constant harassment. My boss might call me during the weekend, ask for data or whatever, because HE is working. But HE gets PAID for it and gets paid a good salary. I don't. I get calls in the morning, asking where I'm at. Like just two days ago, I worked until 11PM due to the ridiculous deadlines, and I woke up a little late next morning so I got a call 9AM asking where the hell am I, because I wasn't at my office. Well duh, I went to get a little sleep in between, is that still permitted or should I also not take bathroom breaks? And this is constant. Others get comments on how they dress, one of the female students got comments "you dress like a 17 year old teenager". Which isn't even true. And she was losing some weight (she was thin, NOT overweight) and the comment was "you lost your muscles, not the fat". **** like that.

It's ****ed up. Even the boss's wife had commented on her saying that she isn't the type of a woman my boss would go for. Excuse me? I'm glad my appearance hasn't been commented yet, or my dressing, it would be the last drop between not punching his ugly face in. This is like stuff that has happened during the last week or two. Now, multiply that with 2 years and you'll get a black bundle of tightly compressed energy of negativeness and wrongdoings. If someone asked "so what's wrong?", I wouldn't even know where to begin. I should make a list, and it would be a loooong list.

This says something about the management and atmosphere: one of our doctorate students broke into crying in a meeting with several people attending. The student cried openly and said she can't take it anymore. She's burning out, if not burned out already. My boss said "but you aren't burned out yet?" and she replied "I'm not sure, if not, it's coming". To which the boss said OK, as in you're not burned out yet, let's continue. Another student was in the meeting through phone and also cried. In fact I was the only one who did not cry. That should tell you something about the seriousness of the situation. If you've got grown ups CRYING, pleading for mercy, you know something is seriously wrong. As in time to fix things is already late. There is only one problem and it isn't the employees. Something he doesn't get. He thinks it's other people who are just lazy and stupid. Yet, no one has ever lasted under his command. Maybe that should be a hint....

[Ecofarm]

There definately should not be any crying between advisors and PhD students. Crying is the result of feeling helpless (it can be good crying, when we are helpless [or not responsible] but something good happens). I'm not helpless, I'm totally in charge of my program (I could work at the department and don't, but I cannot imagine that would make a difference). Right now, I'm fkn off for a couple weeks before getting my ticket to Kenya.

I should make a list, and it would be a loooong list.

Seems like you are working on it now.

[DanS]

I have a friend who ejected from a Ph.D. program when all of her classwork and almost all of her lab work was done. She had an awful adviser. It got tricky because in some fields the adviser co-owns the research of the advisee. So I guess even if there are boards and advisers, the situation can be as bad as you are experiencing.

She switched schools and eventually received her Ph.D.

[Pekka]

I have a friend who ejected from a Ph.D. program when all of her classwork and almost all of her lab work was done. She had an awful adviser. It got tricky because in some fields the adviser co-owns the research of the advisee. So I guess even if there are boards and advisers, the situation can be as bad as you are experiencing.

She switched schools and eventually received her Ph.D.

Yes, advisors can be quite bad. In here, as far as I know, advisor owns nothing of it. Regardless, I can rewrite the same thing and use different data if need be.

Just yesterday I received a message saying I'm behind deadline, I should go to Uni now and "interview people or my neighbors or whoever" and spend the weekend working, of course for free. That I'm behind deadline already and it's serious and I'm this and that. I got pissed off, thought about it and fired an email back saying clearly that I need rest, I work a lot already, I am offended and frustrated about the way these things are being handled and that we need a lot of changes. I think I said that I'm offended couple of times at least, and that I'm tired. And that to me it is out of the line and offensive that I have to defend myself, just coming off from brain surgery and now running in this circle of madness and irrational deadlines, that it is bad for my health and that I find it offensive that this is of no concern to anyone, as I don't like to repeat it and sound like a whiner.

Finally, I concluded that should this matter be neglected in the near future again and should we continue to fail in communication and constructive feedback, we will just have to bring a third party to settle it then.

Which is me way of saying that I'm going to the dean and say everything I know, mofos.

[DirtyMartini]

Isn't that how it always works for PhD programs? Every time you get close to thinking that you should finish, they find some BS extra task to do before they they'll allow you to be done? You're extraordinarily cheap labor for your research advisor at this point -- they have a vested interest in not letting you finish your program.