UK General Election- May 6th

[Dauphin]

If John Smith hadn't died, I wonder how things would have progressed without Blair as PM.

[C0ckney]

yeah it's an interesting question, i think that labour would've won in 1997 but i don't think we would have seen the same landslide. i do very much doubt that we'd have gone to war in iraq without blair at the helm.

[C0ckney]

also there are lots of 'proper' socialist parties in the UK. there are 3 that run candidates in swansea and no doubt there are more scattered around the country. it's all very judean people's front, but they do exist.

[MikeH]

. i do very much doubt that we'd have gone to war in iraq without blair at the helm.

We would have if the Tories were in power, which they might have been without Blair.

[C0ckney]

i have trouble imagining a tory victory in 2001 even with no blair. also, i think it would be hard to find a british politican, of any party, who was as in thrall to bush as blair was.

[MikeH]

The Conservatives at the time supported the war. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

There's no guarantee a Labour Party under John Smith would have won '97 let alone the 3 massive victories Blair one (one of which was after Iraq war started let's not forget).

[C0ckney]

well obviously, there's no guarantees when we're talking about counter-factuals. however, i think it can be said with some confidence that labour under john smith would have defeated the tories in 1997 (do people actually remember how divided, weak and bereft of ideas the conservatives were then?), and of course the inevitable battles and soul searching which follow electoral defeat would have made it hard for the tories in 2001.

we also now know that tony blair promised bush to back him in iraq no matter what a year before the invasion. we also know all about the 'dodgy dossier' and the other lies and deceptions practised upon us to take us to war. so yes, hindsight is indeed wonderful. do you honestly believe that another british politician would have had the same unshakable belief in geroge w and gone to the lengths to deceive the british people over iraq that blair did?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

and of course the inevitable battles and soul searching which follow electoral defeat would have made it hard for the tories in 2001.

I think it had more to do with turning the 2001 into a largely single-issue campaign- saving sterling.

Remember that? How Hague assured us that a vote for Labour was a vote for the Euro?

[MikeH]

If I'd believed him it might have made me vote Labour.

[Dauphin]

so yes, hindsight is indeed wonderful. do you honestly believe that another british politician would have had the same unshakable belief in geroge w and gone to the lengths to deceive the british people over iraq that blair did?

Probably more a Harold Wilson Vietnam repeat

[Dauphin]

If I'd believed him it might have made me vote Labour.

If the "Outside posh boy" campaign was real, I'd probably vote Labour.

[C0ckney]

I think it had more to do with turning the 2001 into a largely single-issue campaign- saving sterling.

Remember that? How Hague assured us that a vote for Labour was a vote for the Euro?

well exactly, they were so busy naval gazing they couldn't come up with a coherent message for the election.

[Drake Tungsten]

well exactly, they were so busy naval gazing they couldn't come up with a coherent message for the election.

What's wrong with naval gazing? The Royal Navy has long been the pride of Great Britain.

Seems a much more interesting pursuit than train-spotting, as well.

[C0ckney]

has anyone read the labour manifesto? it's entitled a future fair for all (which is very ironic considering that britain has the worst social mobility since the 1950s and the poorest 20% pay more tax than in 1997 and the richest 20% pay less, according to the lib dems).

it's really quite centrist and blarite, promising radical reform of public services and a 'smarter state', it's very sunny and optimistic and there's lots of stuff there that even i could get behind. but, of course, who is going to believe a word of it? we've heard it all before, from 1997 onwards and it makes you wonder what they've done for the past 13 years if this is what they're offering in 2010. it reminds me of an alcoholic wife beater saying that he's turned over a new leaf, he'll change, he really means it this time, he just needs one more chance and things will be different (promise!).

[MikeH]

Exactly the same as the Conservatives in '97. I don't think they've really changed either.