Sex abuse scandal. Guess the religion?

[Ming]

Well, he do have a point. In states ruled by religious dicatators such as Iran and the Vatican, the state haven't authority over priests

We are talking about the US... and priests are JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE... subject to the laws of the land. Only in BK's warped view are priests above the law and don't have to answer to the state if they rape somebody.

[Asher]

Hey, at least the teen was of legal age to consent. Things are improving.

What kind of teen consents to sex with an 83 year old man?

[Ming]

It depends how rich the the 83 year old man is

[stratti]

such a long winded, convuluted discussion about a simple problem. predatory men seek positions of authority. scouts, priests, teachers. for a church to cover up an allegation this means that the police would not have been involved. many years after the fact criminal action is possible and even common for offences involving children.

so why were the priests not brought to justice? where were the parents once they learned. are we hearing about this because it involves litigation for monetary damages.

catholic church is not responsible for these atrocities. Without knowing the details of the cover up I.e. confessions are protected, one cannot comment with precision. and lastly nothing was preventing victims accessing the police

[BlackCat]

We are talking about the US... and priests are JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE... subject to the laws of the land. Only in BK's warped view are priests above the law and don't have to answer to the state if they rape somebody.

Ming, I think that you are a bit dense - I say that in every country on this planet except Iran and the vatican, the same rules applies - state rules is above any kind of religious rules - it's only in these two countries that Ben is protected by religious laws

[Ming]

My comment was directed to the dense BK... not really you. He's the one that has said the God own's their asses, and that the Church has authority over them, not the state. He see's no problem with not reporting the abuses to the state.

[BlackCat]

Well, ok - makes sense. Now I only wonder how he will answer my little question :

Are you saying that priests shouldn't go trough the same procedure ? And if not, please explain why.

Both a "serious" answer and an evasion will probably be entertaining

[Asher]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/19/germany.vatican.sex.abuse/index.html?hpt=C1

Doctor: Catholic Church ignored my warnings about child molester

Berlin, Germany (CNN) -- The archdiocese headed by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger -- who is now the pope -- ignored warnings in the 1980s to keep a molester in its ranks away from children, the doctor who issued those warnings said Friday.

Werner Huth, a psychoanalyst, told CNN that he specifically demanded the priest never be allowed to interact with kids again. But instead, Huth said, the church allowed the priest to return to work and even deal with children.

In 1986, the priest, the Rev. Peter Hullermann, was convicted of abusing minors. He was sentenced to 18 months incarceration, which under German law he was able to serve on probation without going to jail. He also paid a fine of 4000 deutschmarks (about $2000 at the time).

Afterward, he resumed work in the church and continued to work with children.

Hullermann was suspended last week as information about his past came to light.

Huth, who says he regularly did psychoanalytical evaluations for the Catholic church, said he does not believe Pope Benedict XVI was ever aware that Hullermann had been returned to service. Huth said he warned other church officials about Hullerman's pedophilia many times.

Huth told CNN that Hullermann was in therapy at his practice from 1980 to 1992.

"I gave three preconditions for even taking him into therapy: that he stop drinking alcohol, that he find a friend who watches out for him and makes sure he sticks to the rules, and that he never in his life interacts with children again," Huth said.

Hullermann underwent group therapy rather than individual therapy because he never fully accepted that he had a problem, and Huth hoped the group dynamic might change that, Huth said. But Hullermann "never really fit into the group, because he never really admitted that he had a problem. There was some progress, but very limited."

Huth says he could not cure Hullermann, but tried to redirect his sexual desires.

Huth -- who first shared details with the New York Times -- said he last saw Hullermann on Monday of this week. Hullermann requested an emergency meeting after his story broke on international media, Huth said, adding that Hullermann looked bad, like a man who had aged prematurely.

The story of Hullermann comes amid a scandal at the Vatican.

Hundreds of alleged victims have come forward in Germany claiming priests abused them. Some allege the abuse was sexual, while others refer to physical violence such as slapping.

German lawyers representing alleged victims say there are more than 300 cases across Germany. Some of the cases date back to the 1950s.

German Catholic bishops in the pope's home state of Bavaria expressed "deep shock and shame" Thursday at recent reports of abuse in their diocese.

In a statement issued at the spring conference of the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising, the bishops announced new measures on how to win back trust and prevent similar abuse from happening in the future.

Meanwhile, deeply Catholic Ireland has been badly shaken by a government-backed report that found the Archdiocese of Dublin and other Catholic church authorities in Ireland covered up child abuse by priests from 1975 to 2004. Child sexual abuse was widespread then, the report found.

Pope Benedict XVI has signed a pastoral letter dealing with the scandal rocking the Catholic church in Ireland, a Vatican spokesman said Friday. The contents of that letter have not been made public.

[Ben Kenobi]

I used the teacher argument with Ben in a PM yesterday, his view is that a teacher is NOT always a teacher, and a priest is always a priest, no matter what happens.

If you are going to quote me, get it right.

[Ben Kenobi]

BK thinks the state doesn't have authority over priests... only the RCC... what a moron.

I think the RCC and the state are separate entities. The state should not be telling the church what to do and vice versa.

[Ben Kenobi]

Asher, that's already been dealt with. The fellow who was responsible (not Ratzinberger), has already admitted he screwed up.

[DaShi]

I agree with Ben. The actions of the priests are an act of war against America. We should respond with extreme Bush-like prejudice! Blow up the Vatican and invade France!

[Asher]

Asher, that's already been dealt with. The fellow who was responsible (not Ratzinberger), has already admitted he screwed up.

I think the screwing was the problem.

[Ben Kenobi]

I did mention the exception of visiting priests... but even visiting priests are subject to the law of the land while they are here. Unless by some RARE chance they have diplomatic passport.

So if the law of the land forbade Catholic priests altogether, priests who came should be subject to such a law?

Yeah, using a single case to try to prove that all are like this... doesn't work.

So you believe the media when they say this is a Catholic problem? No, it's not. It's a people problem. You are aware that the incidence isn't any greater in the Catholic church than it is for other denominations?

Why are you using a single case where the system broke down to claim that your positions are correct? It's no different.

Prove it... It's just your opinion. My opinion would be that jail followed up by a national sex offender list is more effective than just being sent to another place without telling potential victims.

Even if it were only 3 years, and he was released into the general public, whereas in the CC they would be kept out of the public altogether?

Again.. prove it. They obviously weren't isolated enough if there repeat offenders.

You are using one case to explain your post. If one point is insufficient proof for you, then one case is insufficient proof for me.

You are making the assumption that EVERY offender or even MOST of them were isolated from any potential offender.

Do you have evidence that most of the priests in fact reoffend after they are relocated? This would be rather essential to your contention that this is a widespread problem.

Gee... great, they finally get seriuos after being called on it. They let it happen for years... all around the world. They had no choice but to start doing something about it. It says a lot about the church that had to be dragged into doing it.

Like anything it takes time. Now, my question for you, is will you accept that it is not business as usual and commend the church for taking action? As far as I can see, you believe the Church can do no right. What would it take to convince you otherwise?

If a priest breaks the law, the state has the authority, it's that simple. Again, are you claiming that the authorities don't have the right to enforce the laws of the land and that priests are above the law.

All I'm saying is the law that the priest is held to (ecclesial) is more valid than the secular law. Ergo, priests ought to be disciplined by the higher and not the lower law.

Gee... again, you are trying to use a single case to prove a point.

Actually, no I'm not. I've attached a picture showing that the average molester in GA served about 2 years up until the last few years.

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/pdf/CSO.pdf

As usual, nothing you have said backs up your crazy claim that priests are above the law and that the Church owns them. They are citizens of the US and are subject to the laws of the land, just like everybody else. And foreign national priests are also subject to the laws of the land while on US soil, unless they have a diplomatic passport.

They are exempt from quite a few laws that don't really apply to them. Labour laws, marriage laws, etc. If any other profession had a requirement barring their members from marrying this could not happen. I am saying that it's only recently that the laws were any different between the two organisations.

[BlackCat]

I think the RCC and the state are separate entities. The state should not be telling the church what to do and vice versa.

Sure they are seperate entities, but as any other organisation, it is subjected to the laws of the state.