Sex abuse scandal. Guess the religion?

[MikeH]

Little thought experiment:

Imagine that rather than a church it's a school system where the school boards have consistently covered up sexual abuse by teachers, and just shuffled them around schools and duties rather than reported them to the police.

What would the public and press reaction be then?

I know this is getting some coverage now, but I really can't believe how lightly the media is treading around the story.

Anyone who had any knowledge and tried to cover it up should be prosecuted under any and all local laws that apply. No matter whether it's a church, school, company, scout group, whatever.

It's utterly indefensible.

[Ecofarm]

It's one of those things that anything short of "skin them and hang them" could be seen as tacitly condoning the crime. Obviously, this is an exageration; however, it really is hard to listen to any kind of technical, legal, or procedural (let alone ethical, moral or quasi-logical) arguments that temper our outright rage, fear and desire for heavy-handed protection.

[Ming]

For instance, because each bishop has a great deal of autonomy in dealing with church issues, each diocese dealt with child abuse in its own way.

And that's a big problem... EVERY BISHOP should have made the charges public and turned the offender over to the court system to determine guilt. Child abuse is NOT a Church issue. We are talking about criminals here. And we aren't talking petty thieves... we are talking about ADULTS who ABUSED children. Granted, if a priest confessed under the seal of the confessional, that's one thing. But here, we had people bring the accusations to the atttention of the Church... CRIMINAL accusations. It's not up to the church to determine guilt, that's up to the court system. And in too many cases, the Church covered it up... or even worse, moved the accused to another place so that they could do it again.

Priests are NOT ABOVE THE LAW of the land. And neither are the Bishops that covered up criminal activity not covered by the seal of the confessional.

[MikeH]

I'm not really coming from a place of rage and fear. It's just extremely well documented that child abusers are driven by their urges to serially offend. Anyone attempting to cover something like this up is basically enabling the abuser to offend again.

[MikeH]

And that's a big problem... EVERY BISHOP should have made the charges public and turned the offender over to the court system to determine guilt. Child abuse is NOT a Church issue. We are talking about criminals here. And we aren't talking petty thieves... we are talking about ADULTS who ABUSED children. Granted, if a priest confessed under the seal of the confessional, that's one thing. But here, we had people bring the accusations to the atttention of the Church... CRIMINAL accusations. It's not up to the church to determine guilt, that's up to the court system. And in too many cases, the Church covered it up... or even worse, moved the accused to another place so that they could do it again.

Priests are NOT ABOVE THE LAW of the land. And neither are the Bishops that covered up criminal activity not covered by the seal of the confessional.

Exactly.

[Ecofarm]

I think rage and fear are normal responses to pedos, and they should never be let out of prison. If I supported the death penalty, they might be priority over murderers.

[MikeH]

They wouldn't necessarily have to make the charges public, but certainly bring in the police to investigate.

[Ming]

They wouldn't necessarily have to make the charges public, but certainly bring in the police to investigate.

Good point... But it was their responsibility to bring the police into it, or tell the parents they should go to the police... NOT COVER IT UP or threaten the victims.

[Ben Kenobi]

Imagine that rather than a church it's a school system where the school boards have consistently covered up sexual abuse by teachers, and just shuffled them around schools and duties rather than reported them to the police.

Which, btw can and does happen.

What would the public and press reaction be then?

Probably ho hum.

I know this is getting some coverage now, but I really can't believe how lightly the media is treading around the story.

Umm, it's quite the opposite.

Anyone who had any knowledge and tried to cover it up should be prosecuted under any and all local laws that apply. No matter whether it's a church, school, company, scout group, whatever.

So a witch hunt then?

It's utterly indefensible.

The only part I agree with here.

[Ben Kenobi]

or even worse, moved the accused to another place so that they could do it again.

You would prefer the priest to stay on where he was? I wouldn't want him to stay. I'd want him reassigned far away and never engaging with children in ministry again.

[Ming]

You would prefer the priest to stay on where he was? I wouldn't want him to stay. I'd want him reassigned far away and never engaging with children in ministry again.

Gee... I'd prefer that he goes on trial to see if he's guilty, and if so, put in jail so he can't do it again in the near future. The Church has NO RIGHT to cover it up... that's ILLEGAL!

And I would want him thrown out of the priesthood, just like some of the others have been. Unfortunately, only a few have been thrown out... THEY ALL SHOULD BE!

[Ben Kenobi]

The church can and does remove priests for the reason of serious crimes.

Grr. I already spelled out what they do. They are still a priest.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gee... I'd prefer that he goes on trial to see if he's guilty, and if so, put in jail so he can't do it again in the near future. The Church has NO RIGHT to cover it up... that's ILLEGAL!

Who says they are covering it up? I agree he should be tried, and then it should be left up to the Church to decide how he ought to be disciplined. I'd still want him reassigned far away after all is said and done.

And I would want him thrown out of the priesthood, just like some of the others have been. Unfortunately, only a few have been thrown out... THEY ALL SHOULD BE!

I disagree. Sacramentals are sacramentals. You can't just hit a reset button, and go, "oh, you aren't a priest anymore", it doesn't work that way.

[Ming]

They should be defrocked... Without the right to perform any of duties (with the exception of last rites in an emergency situation) of a priest.
Just moving them around allows them to continue to perform as priests, and be in contact with potential victims under the guise of being a priest. If the are defrocked, there is no illusion of them being a person of god's authority. You can call them priests if you wish... by that's just a word at that point.

The point is, they need to be REMOVED and tried... not moved so they can find new victims.

[Ming]

Who says they are covering it up? I agree he should be tried, and then it should be left up to the Church to decide how he ought to be disciplined. I'd still want him reassigned far away after all is said and done.

MANY DID COVER IT UP... and it's NOT up to the church to decide how they ought to be discplined... it's UP TO THE COURTS! And you wanting to them to get away with it by simply reassigning them is just plain sick.

I disagree. Sacramentals are sacramentals. You can't just hit a reset button, and go, "oh, you aren't a priest anymore", it doesn't work that way.

Look up defrocking... it does work that way.