Children of gay parents also targets of discrimination.

[Solomwi]

This is so cute. Again, back to this quote from the article, which I don't have any reason to believe this is a deliberate lie or fabrication:

"But Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell does not think that two gay men should be fathers."

There's the reason.

Except that it relies entirely on a stereotype? I wouldn't call it a lie. I'd call it a poorly-drawn conclusion included for emotional appeal.

[Solomwi]

Which makes it seem a little pedestrian. What will the appeal establish? "registrar forced to write down name of actual adoptive parents in birth certificate." A real step forward for gay rights, or an utter waste of money for all involved: you decide. (if the adoption were being challenged that would be another matter entirely)

I think you're right. It is pretty pedestrian. Both the trial and appellate courts based their decisions completely on full faith and credit. As far as lasting legal precedent, it will be something only state officials and future law students care about.

"We'd like a birth certificate for our adopted son."
"Sure, whose name goes on as the father?"
"Both."
"I'm sorry, I can't issue a certificate showing an unmarried couple as adoptive parents. I can give you one with either name on it, but not both."
"We'll see you in court, hatemonger!"

[MrFun]

Cultural groups have common characteristics or traits to them. The Bible Belt culture that I speak of, has a strong conservative element to their group and this strong conservatism in this cultural group is rooted in Christianity and based on members of this group's understanding of Christianity and its values.

It's no fabrication or lie to acknowledge that within Bible Belt culture in America, homophobia is prevalent. So I think I am within reason to fairly infer that Caldwell's actions are motivated by homophobia, even if he is not directly involved. He certainly has not stopped Catchart from carrying out the action that he did.

There is a difference between unfair stereotyping, and using factual knowledge of common cultural characteristics of a group of people.

[SlowwHand]

You mean it depends on your point of view? Others that stereotype are bastards, but it's OK for you to do the same.

[Solomwi]

Cultural groups have common characteristics or traits to them. The Bible Belt culture that I speak of, has a strong conservative element to their group and this strong conservatism in this cultural group is rooted in Christianity and based on members of this group's understanding of Christianity and its values.

It's no fabrication or lie to acknowledge that within Bible Belt culture in America, homophobia is prevalent. So I think I am within reason to fairly infer that Caldwell's actions are motivated by homophobia, even if he is not directly involved. He certainly has not stopped Catchart from carrying out the action that he did.

There is a difference between unfair stereotyping, and using factual knowledge of common cultural characteristics of a group of people.

And you're in the former, because you're using one characteristic to ascribe motive to a person, and ignoring any characteristics, and many facts, that may argue otherwise. Call me the first time Caldwell does something to suggest that this is motivated by homophobia. In fact, call me when the homophobia angle matters. Whether he's homophobic or not, he isn't "us[ing] his own personal opinion on a social issue as superior to a court's ruling."

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ben's posts on this thread make my head hurt.

[MrFun]

And you're in the former, because you're using one characteristic to ascribe motive to a person, and ignoring any characteristics, and many facts, that may argue otherwise. Call me the first time Caldwell does something to suggest that this is motivated by homophobia. In fact, call me when the homophobia angle matters. Whether he's homophobic or not, he isn't "us[ing] his own personal opinion on a social issue as superior to a court's ruling."

I find Lambda to be creditible enough to believe they're being honest about Caldwell's reason for his action.

[Boris Godunov]

MrFun, don't you think it's unfair to ascribe homophobic motives to someone without any first-hand proof? No matter how much you may trust the source, they didn't provide ANY documentation of their claim as to his motives. If they can't provide a quote from him, then it's pretty judgmental to assume that his personal beliefs are bigoted just because of where he's from. Didn't Jesus say stuff about judging others?

[Solomwi]

Why, other than because you really, really want to? Being credible doesn't make them clairvoyant. If they have some evidence that Caldwell is appealing a case out of homophobia, why did Cathcart not mention it? Jesus titty-****ing Christ, MrFun, this is on par with Patty's "National Review is a peer-reviewed academic journal" spiel. FFS, Cathcart's statement doesn't even make sense as a motivation for Caldwell. Even if Louisiana wins and never issues the birth certificate, it won't have the first bit of impact on whether the two men are fathers.

And again, Lambda's honesty isn't the question. I think you're being plenty honest in this thread. You're just using poor reasoning to cling to something you want to believe is true. It looks to me like Cathcart did something similar. After all, Evil Homophobe (TM) Caldwell keeping the gay man down gives Cathcart's side a rallying focal point, while AG Caldwell appealing a ruling regarding the issuance of state documents reflecting a judicial order that could not have been legally issued in that state doesn't quite have the same emotional impact. At best it's a rhetorical flourish. At worst it's an outright lie. I think it's probably closer to the first, but in no case should it be taken as a factual assertion about Caldwell's personal views or motivations.

[MrFun]

Earlier, I tried googling "Buddy Caldwell and gays" to find out what his position had been in the past on other issues concerning gays. After sifting through the first three or four pages of the search result, I could not find additional information. Frustrating.

I wanted to see if I could confirm my inference - or maybe find out that I'm wrong about Caldwell's motivation for his action.

[Boris Godunov]

If you want a real issue to get indignant about, why not cover the Mississippi school district that canceled their senior prom rather than allow a gay girl to take her girlfriend to the dance? ****ing Mississippi rednecks

[MrFun]

Boris, I read about that too. Queers are popping up in the news more often than usual this past week, with that Republican senator arrested outside a gay bar, then this Louisiana issue, and now the high school prom issue.


EDIT: I think the latest update on the prom issue, is that the lesbian is suing the school to compel them to have the prom?

[Asher]

I hate the word "Queers".

[MrFun]

I think you're pulling my leg, Asher - you've never been known to care for political correctness. so . . . .


I guess you hated the title of the show, "Queer as Folk" then?

[MrFun]

I find the word "queer" acceptable in some cases/contexts, but in other cases/contexts, I find it offensive.

One time, I got into a little argument with another gay friend of mine who clearly finds the word "queer" to be very offensive, even when other gay people use it. Maybe the difference is generational? He's a much older friend and maybe the older generations are less comfortable with using the word "queer" the way other gays use it now.

I definitely find "******" or "fudge packer" offensive - even when used by other gay people.