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We all know it was in the intrest of Democrats to perpetuate poverty...

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  • #16
    It's the National Review. You expect them to do anything other than scream and cry non-stop about Obama and the Dems? It's their job.

    The key issue here is the escalator clause.

    Leftist interpretation (from the HuffPost):

    What the SPM will do, is rise as living standards rise, rather than fall further and further behind -- as is the case with the current poverty measure. Indeed, the latter is "frozen" at the level of a basket of goods and services adequate for families in the 1950s, updated only for inflation. It does not allow for rapidly increasing costs, such as health care and taxes or "new" costs such as child care.

    What the SPM won't do is raise the thresholds very much. Because it only includes some costs -- housing, utilities, food and clothing -- it starts at not much above the current, much too low level. In fact, since it will also introduce geographic adjustments reflecting differences in housing costs, the SPM is likely to result in lowering thresholds in less expensive areas such as rural counties or the South below the current federal poverty measure. In short, the SPM is a measure of deprivation, not a full measure of what people and families need to meet their basic needs.

    What the SPM will do is take into account the impact of cash and some in-kind benefits, as well as taxes and tax credits. Thus it can measure the impact of aid that improves the well-being of the poor, a good thing. But there is a catch: it only does this for aid that mirrors costs that are in the threshold, such as housing and food. For work-related costs and health care, it only subtracts actual spending from income. As a result, those with enough for the bare basics of food and housing, but are too poor to afford sufficient health or child care, ironically do not get counted as poor.

    When the SPM changes are combined, they counter each other, so that the count of the poor will likely increase somewhat, but not by much. At the same time, it does change who is counted as poor. Somewhat surprisingly, When New York City implemented a version of the SPM elderly poverty increased substantially, while the count of poor families with children decreased slightly.
    I don't know whether this is a good idea. What I'm pretty sure of is that it's not some sort of brilliantly evil scheme by Democrats to foment class warfare.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #17
      /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Commerce Department's U.S. Census Bureau is preparing to develop a Supplemental Poverty Measure that will use the best new data...


      WASHINGTON, March 2 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Commerce Department's U.S. Census Bureau is preparing to develop a Supplemental Poverty Measure that will use the best new data and methodologies to obtain an improved understanding of the economic well-being of American families and of how federal policies affect those living in poverty. The initiative to create the new statistic is included in the President's FY2011 budget proposal.

      (Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20090226/CENSUSLOGO)

      The official poverty measure, which has been in use since the 1960s, largely estimates poverty rates by looking at a family's or an individual's cash income. It will remain the definitive statistical measure. The supplemental measure will be a more complex and refined statistic, including such additional items as tax payments and work expenses in estimating family resources. Unlike the official administrative measure, the supplemental measure will not be the measure used to estimate eligibility for government programs. Instead, it will be an additional macroeconomic statistic, providing further understanding of economic conditions and trends.

      The Supplemental Poverty Measure will be released in the fall of 2011, at the same time that the official income and poverty measures for 2010 are released by the Census Bureau.

      "The new supplemental poverty measure will provide an alternative lens to understand poverty and measure the effects of anti-poverty policies," Department of Commerce Under Secretary for Economic Affairs Rebecca Blank said. "Moreover, it will be dynamic and will benefit from improvements over time based on new data and new methodologies."

      An Interagency Technical Working Group has provided a roadmap to the Census Bureau on how to develop the Supplemental Poverty Measure, drawing on the recommendations of a 1995 National Academy of Science report called Measuring Poverty, and the extensive research on poverty measurement that has been done over the past 15 years. Additional details can be found at http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/povme...servations.pdf. The Census Bureau's statistical experts, with assistance from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and in consultation with other appropriate agencies and outside experts, will be responsible for the measure's technical design.


      SOURCE U.S. Census Bureau
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

      Comment


      • #18
        My gut reaction: many of the additional things taken into account by this new supplemental poverty measurement sound like good ideas. I don't think I like the escalator clause, however. Much depends on the details, I suppose.

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

        Comment


        • #19
          One more article:

          The number of poor people in New York rose by about 300,000, according to a new measure of poverty by the city, but declined under the federal formula.


          And that's about all that's out there on this. So it seems to have been pioneered in NYC, by/for the Bloomberg Administration. Bloomberg is a R, formerly a D, and he doesn't like term limits. That about sums up my knowledge of him. I doubt he's interested in class warfare, though.

          -Arrian
          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Asher View Post
            Patty. Not Ogie.
            Too many like-minded people to keep track of.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • #21
              National Review is a raving partisan source.
              Well that's the greatest advertisement for them that I've seen.

              Thanks Oerdin!
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • #22
                Ben likes it. It must be a good publication.
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                • #23
                  I only read the very best.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MrFun View Post
                    Too many like-minded people to keep track of.
                    Stereotyping
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                    • #25
                      Like most threads, if I just let things run their course Asher's objections evaporate of their own accord.

                      Asher and Mr. Fun, a match made in heaven
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                      • #26
                        It's hard to defend the indefensible.
                        “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                        "Capitalism ho!"

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                        • #27
                          The republicans perpetuate social and spiritual poverty, if not economic.
                          Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Patroklos View Post
                            Like most threads, if I just let things run their course Asher's objections evaporate of their own accord.

                            Asher and Mr. Fun, a match made in heaven
                            You are nearly as delusional as Ben.

                            You quoted a histrionic, heavily biased source and attempted to portray it as something else.

                            You're being a drama queen.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                            • #29
                              Really, what did I try to portray it as other than a source for an Obama policy from a national and well known publication? As any sane person would instantly recognize it was just a vehicle to introduce the very real announcement of Obama on Tuesday.

                              Whatever problems you have with the article, which you have conveniently not bothered to share with us, is your problem. I would hope that you have something to contribute regarding the actual alteration of the poverty measurements proposed and the results they will yield instead of just whining uncontrollably (and inaccurately) about a source that has no relevance to the topic at all.

                              If you wish to make intelligent objections to anything in the article specifically, I am more than willing to listen. However, I am more concerned about what people think about the proposed changes themselves.
                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Patroklos View Post
                                Really, what did I try to portray it as other than a source for an Obama policy from a national and well known publication?
                                The National Review is a peer reviewed and academically sound source.



                                Whatever problems you have with the article, which you have conveniently not bothered to share with us, is your problem.
                                I only read the first paragraph before my well-honed "heavily biased drama queen" detector went off and I decided I couldn't trust anything else in it. If the article is meant to be taken seriously, it should start off by not reciting obvious bull**** (changes to the poverty line had 'little or nothing to do with poverty'?).

                                If you wish to make intelligent objections to anything in the article specifically, I am more than willing to listen. However, I am more concerned about what people think about the proposed changes themselves.
                                If you are concerned about what people think about the proposed changes, did it ever occur to you to actually find an objective source that identifies the changes?

                                That's what you should've done. What you did instead was link to one of the most childish articles I've ever read. If this is what passes for academically sound in your world, that is truly pathetic and you should mail your degree right back to where you ordered it from.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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