Help Kiddy Choose a Church

[Straybow]

[Q=Imran Siddiqui;5747796]Plenty of big time preachers, such as T.D. Jakes and Joel Osteen, still like to use it, though.[/Q] Jakes, Copeland, and others are still around but are no big deal now. Osteen? That's more the "Jesus likes you and wants you to be his buddy and maybe he'll give you some of his stuff if you hang around him" than the real prosperity doctrine types.

[Kidlicious]

[Q=Kidicious;5747642]Luke 12:15 (NIV)[/Q]

Not particularly helpful in choosing a church.

Why not?

Prosperity Doctrine is passé.

The biggest churches in the country teach it. There's also a bunch of little guys also. It's got to be the fastest growing church.

The stuffed suits are the ones that'll get you thinking that thinking is saving. It isn't.

And the idiots will tell you just to go to any old church, that it doesn't matter what kind of philosophy they are teaching. Don't be a fool.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[Q=Imran Siddiqui;5747796]Plenty of big time preachers, such as T.D. Jakes and Joel Osteen, still like to use it, though.[/Q] Jakes, Copeland, and others are still around but are no big deal now. Osteen? That's more the "Jesus likes you and wants you to be his buddy and maybe he'll give you some of his stuff if you hang around him" than the real prosperity doctrine types.

Jakes, at least, is still very big in certain communities. He sells a ton of books and his MegaFest brings tens of thousands of people out (it fills the Georgia Dome for a few days). So it isn't like it is completely insignificant.

Point taken on Osteen, but its still somewhat pernicious.

[classical_hero]

Elok:

Clement:

"Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted" (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).

"To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature"

St. John Crystostem

"[I]n truth, all men know that they who are under the power of this disease [the sin of covetousness] are wearied even of their father’s old age [wishing him to die so they can inherit]; and that which is sweet, and universally desirable, the having of children, they esteem grievous and unwelcome. Many at least with this view have even paid money to be childless, and have mutilated nature, not only killing the newborn, but even acting to prevent their beginning to live" (Homilies on Matthew 28:5 [A.D. 391]).

"[T]he man who has mutilated himself, in fact, is subject even to a curse, as Paul says, ‘I would that they who trouble you would cut the whole thing off’ [Gal. 5:12]. And very reasonably, for such a person is venturing on the deeds of murderers, and giving occasion to them that slander God’s creation, and opens the mouths of the Manicheans, and is guilty of the same unlawful acts as they that mutilate themselves among the Greeks. For to cut off our members has been from the beginning a work of demonical agency, and satanic device, that they may bring up a bad report upon the works of God, that they may mar this living creature, that imputing all not to the choice, but to the nature of our members, the more part of them may sin in security as being irresponsible, and doubly harm this living creature, both by mutilating the members and by impeding the forwardness of the free choice in behalf of good deeds" (ibid., 62:3)."


Augustine:

"For necessary sexual intercourse for begetting [children] is alone worthy of marriage. But that which goes beyond this necessity no longer follows reason but lust. And yet it pertains to the character of marriage . . . to yield it to the partner lest by fornication the other sin damnably [through adultery]. . . . [T]hey [must] not turn away from them the mercy of God . . . by changing the natural use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife. For, whereas that natural use, when it pass beyond the compact of marriage, that is, beyond the necessity of begetting [children], is pardonable in the case of a wife, damnable in the case of a harlot; that which is against nature is execrable when done in the case of a harlot, but more execrable in the case of a wife. Of so great power is the ordinance of the Creator, and the order of creation, that . . . when the man shall wish to use a body part of the wife not allowed for this purpose [orally or anally consummated sex], the wife is more shameful, if she suffer it to take place in her own case, than if in the case of another woman" (The Good of Marriage 11–12 [A.D. 401]).

The problem is that you are putting man's words above God's Word. The only thing the Bible says about being fertile is that we are to multiply and and for it to be inside marriage. The Bible also sex is pleasurable and that if you deny your partner sex, then you are defrauding them.

Jesus was lazy. He turned water into wine instead of putting effort into winemaking.

Just avoid the churches where the Tithe is mandatory.

"And once again tithing is 10% off the top. That's gross income, not net. Please people, don't force us to audit. Now I'm going to pass this around a second time. Brother Ned, you'll do the honours."

no


And a serious note here - Metropolitan Community Church welcomes anyone who believes in Christ, regardless of sexual orientation. Using the phrase "gay church" can be misleading and create a misperception that only glbt folks are welcomed. In all three MCCs I've belonged to, there were a couple of straight people in the congregation.

I had a gay friend go to one of their churches here in Perth, or maybe their only church and he said it was a waste of his time.

I myself am a Baptist. My church does not belong to any official organisation. Basically a Baptist should stand on these ideals.
Bible Authority
Autonomy of the local church
Priesthood of all believers
Two Ordinances (Believer'sBaptism and The Lord's Supper)
Individual Soul Liberty
Separation of Church and State
Two offices (Pastor and Deacon)

These generally differ to what most churches believe, since many churches have creeds and traditions that often go against what the Bible says. Most denominations have a set structure, which independent Baptists don't have. Generally we have fellowships rather than a strict denomination, whereas there are some Baptist Denominations, but my Church is not a member of one. But we do have a fellowship of plenty churches throughout Australia and other parts of the world. We don't have to go through someone to get to God, since we have direct access to him. We don't believe in the Sacraments and what they have come to mean. Jesus only performed two of them and it is the two that we follow. And also it is only for those who have believed can partake of them, not just anyone. Individual Soul Liberty basically is talking about that no one person is in control of others affairs and how the church is run. Basically a church is run like a Democracy and considering the prevalence of Baptists in America, compared to any other country, that much of the American reasons for Democracy can be found in the way a Baptist church is run. The last two are generally the ones that separate us from most other "denominations" There has never been a Baptist state Church, whereas most of the denominations that were around at the same time. We also don't have a hierarchy like other Churches, just a Pastor or how many you need according to the size of your church and deacons for help fellow Christians.

[Kidlicious]

Point taken on Osteen, but its still somewhat pernicious.

Osteen is the worst. He's obviously just in it for the money.

[Kidlicious]

Basically a church is run like a Democracy and considering the prevalence of Baptists in America, compared to any other country, that much of the American reasons for Democracy can be found in the way a Baptist church is run.

There's no executive branch though. You need a bishop for that.

[Ben Kenobi]

These generally differ to what most churches believe, since many churches have creeds and traditions that often go against what the Bible says. Most denominations have a set structure, which independent Baptists don't have.

Interesting. I used to belong to a church very similar to the baptists, I've never seen that acrostic used.

Generally we have fellowships rather than a strict denomination, whereas there are some Baptist Denominations, but my Church is not a member of one. But we do have a fellowship of plenty churches throughout Australia and other parts of the world.

Well I would argue that the three-fold episcopy is biblical. Deacons/Priests/Bishops, and that the structure is there in the early church. I'd say that the system in the baptist church of doing away with bishops, and having non-ordained priests, and no deacons is a modern invention that dates back no earlier than the 16th century. I can understand why people prefer this system, but it's not biblically sound.

We don't have to go through someone to get to God, since we have direct access to him.

And we don't? I think you gravely misunderstand how confession works. Are you aware that Luther kept confession?

We don't believe in the Sacraments and what they have come to mean. Jesus only performed two of them and it is the two that we follow.

Well sure. Does this mean that you don't believe in the sacrament of marriage because Christ never got married?

And also it is only for those who have believed can partake of them, not just anyone.

This is very important.

Individual Soul Liberty basically is talking about that no one person is in control of others affairs and how the church is run. Basically a church is run like a Democracy and considering the prevalence of Baptists in America, compared to any other country, that much of the American reasons for Democracy can be found in the way a Baptist church is run.

This is a problem, and it's not scripturally sound. It's the reason I left, because I believe that doctrine is not something you vote on.

[Kidlicious]

Osteen? That's more the "Jesus likes you and wants you to be his buddy and maybe he'll give you some of his stuff if you hang around him" than the real prosperity doctrine types.

No. It's not that. It's God want's you to go into business and make lots of money.

Do you know what Bible he uses? I saw him while channel surfing and he was quoting verses that I was sure did not come from the Bible. It turns out they are very wrong translations. The guy is a fraud.

"I don't have the mindset that money is a bad thing."
-Osteen

[OzzyKP]

I just looked up this whole "prosperity theology" stuff, hadn't heard of it before. Wow, what a bastardization of Christianity. Ugh.

[MRT144]

Ohhhhh, Billy Graham. Letsee, while his fellow Christains were marching against the American Apartheid what did Billy and his pal Norman Vincent Peale do? Absolutely nothing. They "didn't want to take sides" in this "secular" struggle. They wanted to be able to "preach to the souls" ( and the wallets ) of both sides. IMHO both Billy Graham and Norman Vincent Peale were highly over-rated.

Yeah, and instead what do we have now? Religious types sticking their dick in secular mashed potatoes. **** that.

[OzzyKP]

Protestants are weird. I stopped in at a neighborhood church today. It is a block away from my house but I've never been after living here for 8 years.

I swear, more people came up to me after the service to try and talk and encourage me to stick around than have come up to me in 8 years at my regular Catholic church.

Sure, that might cut both ways. Catholics are cold & unwelcoming, protestants (Presbyterians) are kind of desperate. Either way I was just trying to make it to the exit and a dozen people swarmed me. Fresh meat! haha.

Just funny, the contrast. Different strokes...

[Ecofarm]

Liberation Theology

[Dr Strangelove]

Yeah, and instead what do we have now? Religious types sticking their dick in secular mashed potatoes. **** that.

So you have a problem with the fact that religious people band helped end segregation ( the American Apartheid )? Why exactly is that MRT? Do you have more of a problem with religious people "sticking their dicks" in problems like the civil wars in Darfur, southern Sudan, the Congo?

[Ben Kenobi]

I swear, more people came up to me after the service to try and talk and encourage me to stick around than have come up to me in 8 years at my regular Catholic church.

Sure, that might cut both ways. Catholics are cold & unwelcoming, protestants (Presbyterians) are kind of desperate. Either way I was just trying to make it to the exit and a dozen people swarmed me. Fresh meat! haha.

Can I have your seat when you leave?

[OzzyKP]

huh?