Deficit/Debt Discussion Thread

[Guynemer]

Drake:

And yet--we'll still be spending 50% more than we were in 2000. That's a problem.

???

[Drake Tungsten]

Is there a question there? I don't disagree, but I didn't feel it was worthwhile for me to simply add a "QFT"...

[Vanguard]

As a nation, the United States pays for health care now (one way or another). So having the federal government insure people makes no difference economically.

On the other hand, it could bankrupt the government---- in which case we might have to accept some inflation.

But we will get that anyway: remember, we pay for health care now one way of another. Either the federal government provides health care or private insurers do. And when private insurers do, it costs everyone just as much as it does now---- probably more, due to increased overhead.

Even people who don't have health insurance pay for it. Do you think it is cheaper to not go to the doctor and get antibiotics than it is to get a fever of 104 and be hospitalized?

So, regardless of what it does to the deficit, there is no reason not to pass national health insurance.

[Ben Kenobi]

Either the federal government provides health care or private insurers do. And when private insurers do, it costs everyone just as much as it does now

How so? With competition, providers have an incentive to be efficient. With a government owned monopoly the waste is legion.

[Vanguard]

How do you become "more efficient" at paying insurance claims? How would that be achieved exactly?

[Ben Kenobi]

The same way they compete with auto insurance.

You offer more extensive coverage, coverage more tailored to the needs of the customer.

Or take out insurance all together and go pay as you go. We've done that up here with optometrists, and they are very happy. They make more money and the competition is fierce.

[Guynemer]

Is there a question there? I don't disagree, but I didn't feel it was worthwhile for me to simply add a "QFT"...

It's just that I hardly consider it to be a decrease in defense spending when we're still paying 50% more than we did a decade ago.

[Vanguard]

The same way they compete with auto insurance.

You offer more extensive coverage, coverage more tailored to the needs of the customer.

Or take out insurance all together and go pay as you go. We've done that up here with optometrists, and they are very happy. They make more money and the competition is fierce.

This does not increase the efficiency of the insurance. It only means that some people pay less for insurance and other people pay more. There is no net gain in wealth.

[Ben Kenobi]

This does not increase the efficiency of the insurance. It only means that some people pay less for insurance and other people pay more. There is no net gain in wealth.

Hmm? That's not true at all. Cost associated with glasses have actually gone down. It's cheaper now for me to get a pair than it was a few years ago.

[Drake Tungsten]

It's just that I hardly consider it to be a decrease in defense spending when we're still paying 50% more than we did a decade ago.

So what? From a budgeting perspective, it clearly is a decrease.

[Guynemer]

It's just that I hardly consider it to be a decrease in defense spending when we're still paying 50% more than we did a decade ago.

So what? From a budgeting perspective, it clearly is a decrease.

And unless it returns to pre-2001 levels, we are clearly screwed.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't know why you think 2000 levels are the gold standard; they're probably a bit on the low side.

[Vanguard]

Hmm? That's not true at all. Cost associated with glasses have actually gone down. It's cheaper now for me to get a pair than it was a few years ago.

That's an interesting data point for eyeglasses in Canada in the short term.

But you can hardly extrapolate from that one data point to health care generally.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's been observed as an unintended consequence up here all over BC. Optometrists have actually made money and passed the savings to their customers by not having the burden of the bureaucracy over their heads.

It's why the provincial government will likely experiment by expanding private delivery of health care by dropping more elective surgeries from the MSP.

[Drake Tungsten]

Has America Lost Its AAA Rating? It's Safer to Lend to Warren Buffett Than Uncle Sam

It's safer to lend money to Warren Buffett than the U.S. government. That's the conclusion of an analysis of recent two-year notes sold by Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway, as detailed by Bloomberg News.

According to data compiled by Bloomberg, the debts of Berkshire (BRK-A), Procter & Gamble Co. (PG), Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) and Lowe’s Cos. (LOW) traded at lower yields than comparable U.S. government debt in recent weeks. It's an exceedingly rare trend that begs the question: Has America already lost its triple-A rating?

America may still merit the highest debt rating but, as Aaron and Henry discuss in the accompanying video, the bond market is saying its credit is deteriorating as public debt continues to mount.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/446540/Has-America-Lost-Its-AAA-Rating%3F-Its-Safer-to-Lend-to-Warren-Buffett-Than-Uncle-Sam

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