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  • Texas' gay marriage ban may have banned all marriages

    Texans are very special people.

    Texas' gay marriage ban may have banned all marriages

    By Dave Montgomery | Fort Worth Star-Telegram

    AUSTIN — Texans: Are you really married?
    Maybe not.

    Barbara Ann Radnofsky, a Houston lawyer and Democratic candidate for attorney general, says that a 22-word clause in a 2005 constitutional amendment designed to ban gay marriages erroneously endangers the legal status of all marriages in the state.
    The amendment, approved by the Legislature and overwhelmingly ratified by voters, declares that "marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman." But the troublemaking phrase, as Radnofsky sees it, is Subsection B, which declares:
    "This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage."
    Architects of the amendment included the clause to ban same-sex civil unions and domestic partnerships. But Radnofsky, who was a member of the powerhouse Vinson & Elkins law firm in Houston for 27 years until retiring in 2006, says the wording of Subsection B effectively "eliminates marriage in Texas," including common-law marriages.
    She calls it a "massive mistake" and blames the current attorney general, Republican Greg Abbott, for allowing the language to become part of the Texas Constitution. Radnofsky called on Abbott to acknowledge the wording as an error and consider an apology. She also said that another constitutional amendment may be necessary to reverse the problem.
    "You do not have to have a fancy law degree to read this and understand what it plainly says," said Radnofsky, who will be at Texas Christian University today as part of a five-city tour to kick off her campaign.
    'Entirely constitutional’
    Abbott spokesman Jerry Strickland said the attorney general stands behind the 4-year-old amendment.
    "The Texas Constitution and the marriage statute are entirely constitutional," Strickland said without commenting further on Radnofsky’s statements. "We will continue to defend both in court."
    A conservative leader whose organization helped draft the amendment dismissed Radnofsky’s position, saying it was similar to scare tactics opponents unsuccessfully used against the proposal in 2005.
    "It’s a silly argument," said Kelly Shackelford, president of the Liberty Legal Institute in Plano. Any lawsuit based on the wording of Subsection B, he said, would have "about one chance in a trillion" of being successful.
    Shackelford said the clause was designed to be broad enough to prevent the creation of domestic partnerships, civil unions or other arrangements that would give same-sex couples many of the benefits of marriage.
    Radnofsky acknowledged that the clause is not likely to result in an overnight dismantling of marriages in Texas. But she said the wording opens the door to legal claims involving spousal rights, insurance claims, inheritance and a host other marriage-related issues.
    "This breeds unneeded arguments, lawsuits and expense which could have been avoided by good lawyering," Radnofsky said. "Yes, I believe the clear language of B bans all marriages, and this is indeed a huge mistake."
    In October, Dallas District Judge Tena Callahan ruled that the same-sex-marriage ban is unconstitutional because it stands in the way of gay divorce. Abbott is appealing the ruling, which came in a divorce petition involving two men who were married in Massachusetts in 2006.
    Massive error?
    Radnofsky, the Democratic nominee in the Senate race against Kay Bailey Hutchison in 2006, said she voted against the amendment but didn’t realize the legal implications until she began poring over the Texas Constitution to prepare for the attorney general’s race. She said she holds Abbott and his office responsible for not catching an "error of massive proportions."
    "Whoever vetted the language in B must have been asleep at the wheel," she said.
    Abbott, a former state Supreme Court justice who was elected attorney general in 2002, has not indicated whether he will seek re-election and is known to be interested in running for lieutenant governor. Ted Cruz, who served as solicitor general under Abbott, is running for attorney general in the Republican primary.
    Radnofsky, who has not yet drawn a Democratic opponent, is scheduled to appear at the Tarrant County Young Democrats Gubernatorial Forum at 6:30 tonight at TCU.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    bout time!
    Monkey!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      i dont get it, how does that line ban all marriage?

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      • #4
        This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage


        It's quite obvious, no?
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #5
          The marriage to end all marriages....
          Blah

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          • #6
            This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage."
            ON a clear reading of b in isolation, they are saying the state cannot create or recognize a marriage. So one interpretation of b is that all marriage is banned. With all respect to Ms Radnofsky though on balance, I believe her interpretation is incorrect although there is some poor drafting here.

            One of the rules of interpretation of statutes I learned in Canada (and I hope/presume they would have in Texas) is that you do not interpret one provision of a single statute in a manner that would render another portion of the same statute as a nullity. The idea is that provisions are read together.

            So taking

            A -- Marriage is bla bla bla

            with her interpretation of

            B- No marriage at all.

            is fundamentally internally inconsistent so "b" should be interpreted as as meaning that except for marriages as defined in "A", there are no marriages.

            I do agree this is poor language in B. If someone had inserted some extra language, she would not have this argument or this fight at all. "B" should have said something like that Other than marriages as set out is A the state can not recognize or create any similar institution-- I actually find the word "identical" to be troublesome since the only thing identical to a marriage betweeen a man and a woman is a marriage between a man and a woman.

            So bad drafting but a Texas judge should have little issue getting to the heart of the issue. I just don't see any Texas judge telling all Texans that the government no longer recognizes them as married
            Last edited by Flubber; November 19, 2009, 10:43.
            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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            • #7
              so your not allowed to refrence something cus then you ban it?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by a.kitman View Post
                so your not allowed to refrence something cus then you ban it?
                This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage except as it applies to one man and one woman.
                <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by a.kitman View Post
                  so your not allowed to refrence something cus then you ban it?
                  You can ban a referenced thing. But rules of interpretation require a judge to read a single statute in a manner that is consistent within itself. It would be inconsistent to recognize marriage in clause A and then unrecogonize it in clause B.


                  Clause A is stated to say
                  marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman
                  That right there is a constitutional recogonition of the existence of marriage and a defintion of what it can be. If your intent in B is to ban all marriage "A" becomes a nullity since the state will no longer recognize the very thing they spent a clause recognizing.

                  As I said before I hate the drafting. I see problems with it that could have been easily fixed without that much additional wording and find it sloppy.

                  Does anyone have the full text of the amendment at hand-- I am curious if there are any other clauses as part of this and don't have the time to go look
                  You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                  • #10
                    I don't see the problem. This is just a transparent attack on marriage amendments.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #11
                      which in term are an attack to personal freedom and equal rights...
                      "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                      • #12
                        No, Ben. It's a transparent attack on Abbott, against whom she's running for AG in next year's election. Like Flubber said, this is simply poor draftsmanship, the only consequence of which will be a few more judicial explanations of the rules of statutory interpretation.
                        Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's ironic that the people who only want to read the "The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed" without acknowledging the part about "as part of a well regulated state militia" are now saying they want to read a whole amendment and not just part of it. Gee, how convenient.

                          Originally posted by Solomwi View Post
                          No, Ben. It's a transparent attack on Abbott, against whom she's running for AG in next year's election. Like Flubber said, this is simply poor draftsmanship, the only consequence of which will be a few more judicial explanations of the rules of statutory interpretation.
                          "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

                          Notice how they always ignore the middle part and all the commas? So there is precedence for open interpritation depending on how the judges want to view things.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
                            It's ironic that the people who only want to read the "The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed" without acknowledging the part about "as part of a well regulated state militia" are now saying they want to read a whole amendment and not just part of it. Gee, how convenient.



                            "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

                            Notice how they always ignore the middle part and all the commas? So there is precedence for open interpritation depending on how the judges want to view things.


                            I don't feel like going to the effort of pointing out all the ways this is a horrible comparison. Maybe later.
                            Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

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                            • #15
                              Any judge with common sense will interpret this clause as banning homosexual marriage or something like it. That's clearly what the amendment was intended to do. Although I do think the amendment is somewhat poorly worded.
                              "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

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