Name ten rock songs better than The Who's "Baba O'Riley"

[Drake Tungsten]

First, it's wrong to mention Prince in the same breath as Hendrix. Badly, badly wrong.

I agree. Prince has had a far longer, more successful and more influential career.

[KrazyHorse]

First, statements like "two of the best live performances in history" are clearly unsubstantiated nonsense, unless proffered in the pub late in the evening after several pints, in which case the lack of logic and reason can be forgiven. Nobody has witnessed any more than the tiniest sub-atomic fraction of all the live performances in history first-hand, and even the recorded ones which might later be available for second-hand viewing and listening cannot convey the true atmosphere and experience of the live performance.

Great live performances require a large, active audience in addition to a great musician. Therefore the set of live performances available for consideration is much smaller than you think.

[KrazyHorse]

Second, and I know this puts me at odds with the legions of Queen fans here, but Queen are no more a real rock band than Abba. They might have more guitars and a sound that shares some characteristics with rock music, but there is something profoundly false about them. Like Abba they have technical ability, song-writing know-how and commercial acumen, all of which lead to great popularity and success, but like Abba they make me cringe. Most of the rock musicians I've known and worked with have felt the same way. The fact that I've moved in alternative-rock circles might explain something in terms of the naked commercialism of Queen's music which repels, or it might just be that Mr Mercury is so skin-crawlingly creepy.

Alternative rock?



Yeah, that's so ****ing edgy of you, dude.

[Drake Tungsten]

I liked Cort Haus alright before that post.

[Cort Haus]

Alternative rock?

Oh yes. I'm edgier than a bag full of razor blades being whirled round the head of a U2 guitarist on the top of a cliff.

[Cort Haus]

I liked Cort Haus alright before that post.

Lies!

You don't even know who I am.

[Cort Haus]

First, it's wrong to mention Prince in the same breath as Hendrix. Badly, badly wrong.

I agree. Prince has had a far longer, more successful and more influential career.

More influential than Hendrix? You'll be saying next that J.K. Rowling is more influential than Tolkien.

As for longer ....

[Drake Tungsten]

You don't even know who I am.

I often confuse you with one of the other English posters, but I have a vague idea of who the two of you are.

More influential than Hendrix? You'll be saying next that J.K. Rowling is more influential than Tolkien.

Prince is the greatest pop songwriter of the last three decades. His influence has been massive, if not in the "alternative" circles you travel in.

[KrazyHorse]

I just showed his "alternative rock" comment to my wife and she started laughing her head off.

[Krill]

Plug in Baby? And perhaps, Creep?

[Cort Haus]

I don't understand the scorn, other than a retaliation for my pop at Queen. Stuff from punk to Pixies has always been considered alternative to the mainstream. It might mean something different in Canada.

[KrazyHorse]

a) Punk is not alternative. Alternative is a later genre heavily influenced by punk

b) Any alt rock band that gets the chance becomes just as "commercial" as Queen. Thinking that "commercialism" somehow detracts from the quality of the music is utterly laughable, you ponce. Comparing Queen to Abba is also utterly laughable.

[-Jrabbit]

Comparing Queen to Abba is also utterly laughable.

QFT -- I lol'd.

[Cort Haus]

a) Punk is not alternative. Alternative is a later genre heavily influenced by punk

b) Any alt rock band that gets the chance becomes just as "commercial" as Queen. Thinking that "commercialism" somehow detracts from the quality of the music is utterly laughable, you {personal attack removed}.

I doubt you were even born when punk came along, but its raw, stripped-down essence was precisely an alternative to the pompous, overblown, up-its-own-arse, ten-minute guitar solo behemoth that rock music had turned into. Alternative with a capital A, as a later genre, exists, as you admit, because of the legacy of punk. Hence punk was the foundation of Alternative.

There are two interpretations of 'commercial' - one which simply refers to something that sells, and another which refers to something designed according to a proven populist formula, rather than music driven by passion and love for the thing itself, regardless of how many people like it.

Yes, most alt rock bands want to make money, and quite right too, but most of them hope for commercial success on their own terms, rather than following a Commercial Recipe (caps for emphasis). Pink Floyd are probably the best example ever of a band that made insane amounts of money without being directed by the record company or actually having to try and appeal to huge audiences.

I'm not familiar with the details of Queen's career, but I notice that their Wiki biog mentions a move towards more radio-friendly song-writing.

Another case in point is Frank Black / Black Francis - the man who was Pixies. Along with Nirvana, one of the most successful and influential alt rock bands there has been. Frank made a few bob out of Pixies, but broke so many rules of what people are supposed to like in music, it was an amazing achievement. Since then, he's churned out solo stuff in a variety of styles, much of which he knows damn well that not many people will like, but he wants to do it anyway. The guy is an icon, but doesn't cash in. Kristin Hersh has produced brilliant stuff for twenty years with Throwing Muses and other line-ups but doesn't adjust her style to maximise sales.

So there's commercial and there's Commercial.

[Cort Haus]

First, statements like "two of the best live performances in history" are clearly unsubstantiated nonsense, unless proffered in the pub late in the evening after several pints, in which case the lack of logic and reason can be forgiven. Nobody has witnessed any more than the tiniest sub-atomic fraction of all the live performances in history first-hand, and even the recorded ones which might later be available for second-hand viewing and listening cannot convey the true atmosphere and experience of the live performance.

Great live performances require a large, active audience in addition to a great musician. Therefore the set of live performances available for consideration is much smaller than you think.

My apologies for not disagreeing with this earlier. I didn't see it.

An active audience certainly helps in providing a great live performance, but the audience doesn't have to be particularly large, and it certainly doesn't have to be televised, or even 'filmed'.

If, by 'large', you mean stadium or huge venue gigs, then this is a subset of all performances and by all means take your pick of these performances that you have seen. Just don't pretend that this necessarily represents the best of all live music, or that a band has to be world-famous to deliver a good product.