[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[Aeson]

I think people deserve respect when they act in a mature and civil manner, as Ben has in regards to his banning. He could have loaded up the DLs and started flaming, but he didn't and I appreciate that. It deserves to be mentioned as well as what he was banned for.

[kentonio]

Hey Ken, what if Ben was a damaged, badly raised individual who had suffered horrendous bullying and discrimination? Would that change your view of him?

I already assume that, but when someone keeps trying to be deliberately cruel to others, there has to be some responsibility for that. We've all played hard here, but that kind of deliberate cruelty is basically limited to just Ben. Remember last time when he came back from his ban? He openly admitted to trollong, and swiftly went back to doing exactly the same things. If there was some solution that would actually help the guy, then great, but what is that thing exactly? We're tried ignoring him, being nicer to him, calling him on his crap, banning him repeatedly. What would you suggest?

[DaShi]

If more people just ignored him, he'd wither away.

[ricketyclik]

We've tried ignoring him, being nicer to him, calling him on his crap, banning him repeatedly. What would you suggest?

Ignoring him, being nicer to him, calling him on his crap or banning him repeatedly, depending on your inclination at the time. I can't see him going away.

Completely ignoring him is the most likely to work, but someone always takes his bait.

[Boris Godunov]

So what would it take to actually be permabanned from the site? Ben seems to have checked every box I can imagine. Beyond individual cases of his vileness, he is simply a disruptive presence who turns everything he touches into a ****show. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he can feasibly be accused of single-handedly ruining Apolyton's Off-Topic forum. I've been ignoring him for 2 years now, but that doesn't prevent me from having to see him wreck every thread he touches by sucking everyone else into his swirling poopnado of asshattery.

Serious consideration should be given to the idea that it's not worth it and to just cut the cord for good.

[EPW]

Aeson is playing the role of a fair and even-handed administrator. He knows(how could he not?) that Ben should be permabanned but he's going through the motions of giving him fair warning and multiple chances to repent and improve his behavior.

[Aeson]

We dont have precident in regards for a permaban under the current OT ruleset. One of the reasons is that a permaban is unlikely to change anything but which DL is used. DFG and Ben are the most recent bannings. I think the current bans are equitable in comparison. We can of course discuss what changes would be good in regards to the rules and how they are applied.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Isn't this exactly what "ignore" buttons are for? It's not as if you're ever going to miss anything worth reading. Since quotes from Ben stopped showing up in my view Poly became a far more user-friendly place.

[dannubis]

Good.

[Elok]

Isn't this exactly what "ignore" buttons are for? It's not as if you're ever going to miss anything worth reading. Since quotes from Ben stopped showing up in my view Poly became a far more user-friendly place.

I'ma go with this. Ken, don't complain about BK. You enable him by paying attention to him.

[kentonio]

I'ma go with this. Ken, don't complain about BK. You enable him by paying attention to him.

Thats right, as normal none of this is on him. Good thing any potential new members will in no way be put off by his vile comments.

Anyway I've had my 2 cents worth, I'll leave you to cheerleading for the same ineffectual strategy that has completely failed to work for the last x number of years.

[Lorizael]

I think one could easily make the argument that potential new members might come to a thread like this, see us steeped in forum drama, roll their eyes, and move on. I don't necessarily agree that the best way for Apolyton leadership to deal with BK is periodic bannings, but I think the best way for Apolyton members to deal with him is to ignore him.

[Elok]

It hasn't worked because you, and a handful of other posters, sabotage it. Same way vaccines don't work when big pockets refuse to take them. I have no BK problem because he doesn't exist for me. Except the big hunks of grey blocks clutter up a page sometimes. Eh, I'll live with it. You should too. We'll worry about new members when they show up. That Dai dude seems to have gone.

Xpost, Re: forum drama, I believe Aeson's response here is the appropriate way to minimize that. Respond to individual incidents, document patterns of behavior, and bring hammers down in an orderly fashion. Nothing arbitrary or emotional.

Second edit because why not: with that said, I wouldn't really object to permabanning BK. He's not doing any good here. But I believe that would generate a certain amount of controversy, which is what he's looking for. A simple collective shunning sounds more certain, and nobody can blame administrative heavy-handedness for a unanimous group action. And I do think it's absurd to complain about a problem which you enable.

[Ming]

I only laugh when I hear the term "permaban" There is no such thing. The only members of this site that were permabanned continued to post under multiple DL's.
It's just too easy to create DL's faster than they can be tracked down and banned. It only causes more disruption to the site. Why should we have to play whack a mole.

I think the multiple month bans is the best that can be done. It doesn't usually force the mass DL creation and disruptions.
Sure, most can say that it doesn't work with cases like BK, and I would have to agree. But frankly, nothing we do can keep somebody from posting if they really want to.

[Elok]

Also, I take this up with you, Ken, and not him, because in my experience, you are receptive to logic. He is Logic-Resistant Arse Inglorious. It's no good hoping to convince him to mend his ways. But if you ignore him, it'll be basically just Molly still paying attention to him. That, and I think Sloww doesn't ignore him, but Sloww also doesn't argue with him, and that's what he craves. Molly just doesn't post often enough to keep BK happy, I think.

Now, he might respond by starting a DL. Not that effectively, since he has a . . . very distinctive posting style. If he successfully hides it, we have effectively forced him to reform, good on us. If not, we can quietly ignore that one too. Eventually he'll face diminishing returns and wander off to poop on someone else's forum.