Why were so many Austrians Nazis?

[Zevico]

Afaik Hannah Arendt's On Totalitarianism is a very long (and a bit dense) book on the rise of totalitarianism generally. It may be worth a read.

[Wezil]

Must have had bad luck. Not that anti-semitism died out completely, but you'll hardly find an Austrian being overtly anti-semitic in this way. Also, the thing with the name has been misinterpreted. Gutmann, Goldmann, Rosenberg, Bernstein, etc., are simply very accurate indicators of Jewish origin, since at some point, jews could choose their surname and they often followed certain patterns.

The fact he would even ask is troubling.

[Wernazuma III]

The fact he would even ask is troubling.

Yes, that's why I meant he must have had bad luck.

[Provost Harrison]

Hey, what's with the past tense?

[Dr Strangelove]

Yes, that was the case, especially in Galicia. This doesn't really explain Hitler though, his family lived in Austria proper.

It does help understand why the Nazi creedo appealed to so many Austrians.

Not really. They were far more liberal.

I don't see how you could say that. Between the formation of the German Empire and the Great War the German government initiated a series of social initiatives that gave common German people beneifts unrivalled anywhere else in the world. They had universal education, universal health care, workman's compensation, child labor laws, social security, the right to form labor unions and more. Austro-Hungary had none of that. The power of the Kaiser was much more limited than that of the Emporer. Racial relations were much better, of course, Germans had the luxury of being 95% of thepopulation of their country. I might point out that in 1933, the year Hitler rose to power Austria also became a fascist dictatorship.

I'd say Prussia was more inclined. Most of Austria, particularly the Germans were Catholics. The Nazi recruits were from the section that either drifted away for whatever reason. It was the Prussians in the north who were the solid voting block for Hitler, and his prime target for recruits.

Regarding the crucial 1933 vote I think you'll find that much of the Bavaria vote went to local Bavarian conservatives. In the map Werenzuma linked it appears that the heaviest Nazis votes are in the parts of Germany bordering Poland - East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. I wonder if that was due to their significant Polish population who may have been demanding border adjustments.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Traditionally, Austria had always been regarded as more tolerant not less. This was part of the reason why Wein was such a polyglot. To those not inclined to like the Austrian model, were more likely to go to Germany and repudiate Austria.

Traiditionally the Austrians were regarded as more tolerant by whom? I'll bet it wasn't the Galician Poles, Croats, Slovenes, Serbs, Romaians, Serbs or Bosnians.

[Wernazuma III]

It does help understand why the Nazi creedo appealed to so many Austrians.

No, it doesn't really. There weren't that many displaced persons after WWI. Mostly it was officials who moved back. Only along the southern border, with the new SHS state (Yugoslavia), there were some ethnic cleansings and violent conflicts about the border (Carinthian Defensive War). This, OTOH, DOES explain to a certain degree why Carinthians and Styrians were more pro-Nazi than other parts of Austria (and why Carinthia still is Haider[irony]PBUH[/irony]-country.)

I might point out that in 1933, the year Hitler rose to power Austria also became a fascist dictatorship. Regarding the crucial 1933 vote I think you'll find that much of the Bavaria vote went to local Bavarian conservatives.

Yupp, not being Nazi doesn't necessarily mean being open minded or liberal. It could also mean one was a bigotted backward looking Alpine Catholic monarchist with 10 children

In the map Wer[na]zuma linked it appears that the heaviest Nazis votes are in the parts of Germany bordering Poland - East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. I wonder if that was due to their significant Polish population who may have been demanding border adjustments.

I guess the explanation follows the more general "frontier" pattern I pointed out in an earlier post.

Traiditionally the Austrians were regarded as more tolerant by whom? I'll bet it wasn't the Galician Poles, Croats, Slovenes, Serbs, Romaians, Serbs or Bosnians.

Except for the Slovenians, all those groups had little to do with German Austrians but were pissed about the Hungarians, since they belonged to their part of the Empire. And they treated other nationalities much worse and more arrogant than in the German Austrian part. They ensured complete control over them by weird election laws for their parlament.
German Austria had more of a problem with the very nationalist "young czech" movement. I have not yet concluded whether the German Austrian 19th century nationalist idiocy or the Czech 19th century nationalist idiocy was more stupid.

[JEELEN]

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20080131211749

Dark brown = more NSDAP, light brown less.

So in 1933 votes in Prussia (partly) were +55% NSDAP. But is this consistent with NSDAP membership? It might simply be that the '29 crash hit those Prussian areas harder than the rest of Germany, I don't know.

Regarding the crucial 1933 vote I think you'll find that much of the Bavaria vote went to local Bavarian conservatives. In the map Werenzuma linked it appears that the heaviest Nazis votes are in the parts of Germany bordering Poland - East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. I wonder if that was due to their significant Polish population who may have been demanding border adjustments.

This makes no sense at all. Poland received "the Corridor" between Danzig/Gdansk, which was made a "free city", following Versailles. Border demands existed vs. Poland, as they would be made vs. Czechoslovakia and the Ruhr region, all of which would be annexed after 1933. This were not specific NSDAP claims though, as they were demanded by virtually all German nationalist parties.

[Wernazuma III]

So in 1933 votes in Prussia (partly) were +55% NSDAP. But is this consistent with NSDAP membership? It might simply be that the '29 crash hit those Prussian areas harder than the rest of Germany, I don't know.

AFAIK, the most affected areas were the more industrialized ones, where American capital already played a considerable role. I.e., probably not the rural Prussian east. But I don't know. I'd really like to see a map with percentages of NSDAP membership in, say, 1943. I just can't find the numbers easily.

[Dr Strangelove]

No, it doesn't really. There weren't that many displaced persons after WWI. Mostly it was officials who moved back. Only along the southern border, with the new SHS state (Yugoslavia), there were some ethnic cleansings and violent conflicts about the border (Carinthian Defensive War). This, OTOH, DOES explain to a certain degree why Carinthians and Styrians were more pro-Nazi than other parts of Austria (and why Carinthia still is Haider[irony]PBUH[/irony]-country.)

Well, I asked the question, thanks for answering. What about the large German enclave in Romania?

Except for the Slovenians, all those groups had little to do with German Austrians but were pissed about the Hungarians, since they belonged to their part of the Empire. And they treated other nationalities much worse and more arrogant than in the German Austrian part. They ensured complete control over them by weird election laws for their parlament.
German Austria had more of a problem with the very nationalist "young czech" movement. I have not yet concluded whether the German Austrian 19th century nationalist idiocy or the Czech 19th century nationalist idiocy was more stupid.

How could I have forgotten the Czechs, Moravians and Slovaks? I must be slipping. You have to admit, in sheer proportions the Austrians lost more after WW1 than the Germans, so it's logically their resentment would be greater and therefore their tendency towards reactionaryism would be greater.

[Wernazuma III]

Well, I asked the question, thanks for answering. What about the large German enclave in Romania? H

That enclave remained intact after WWI. Actually the new Romanian nation was a present to the Saxonians and Swabians, since it brought "Hungarization" to an end (Hungarians were acting extremely as "Herrenmenschen" in their part of the Empire).
Only after WWII many were deported to Siberia or were "exchanged" to Germany; yet more than 100.000 stayed. The real exodus of Siebenbürger Sachsen and Banater Schwaben happened post-1989, when 90% used their easy access to German citizenship to get the hell out. Today, only ~10.000 Saxonians remain in Romania.

[Heresson]

The fact he would even ask is troubling.

No it isn't. Jews are nationality like any other and should be treaten like that. I often ask people what is their origin, simply because it's interesting, not because I want to harm them in any way.

[Heresson]

In the map Werenzuma linked it appears that the heaviest Nazis votes are in the parts of Germany bordering Poland - East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. I wonder if that was due to their significant Polish population who may have been demanding border adjustments.

Western Pomerania (that is what Germans call Pomerania, for us it's Western Pomerania) had hardly any polish minority, just a couple of scattered villages and two or so small cities. Especially that after Versailles, Poles often moved from the territories left to Germany to Poland, and vice versa. And those who remained were simple people, and were easily germanised. I think the only place where there was some polish activity was a small town of Zlotow.

Poles in Eastern Prussia are divided into Powislans, Warmiaks and Masurians. Powislans (whatever) and Warmiaks were catholic, belonged to Poland before the partages, had some consciousness of being polish, there were some polish schools there. But their territories were small. Masurians were protestants and didn't feel polish, in general. And they were also germanising fast. When ww2 finished, young generation could hardly speak polish.

The only place where there were many conscious Poles on a big area is Upper Silesia. It is also the place where the border was the most disputed, where there were fights, where there were the biggest shifts of population - and, despite that, NSDAP is weak there. It may be a reason of that the polish minority simply didn't vote for it, though.

Presence of people who moved to these lands from post-ww1 Poland could have been a reason for revisionism etc. German propaganda portrayed Poland as a "season-state" that will soon collapse, so I guess they believed they'll come back to their former places soon.


[/quote]
Traiditionally the Austrians were regarded as more tolerant by whom? I'll bet it wasn't the Galician Poles, Croats, Slovenes, Serbs, Romaians, Serbs or Bosnians.[/QUOTE]

Galicia was part of the austrian half, so Wenazuma was wrong. He is right, however, that austrian rule was considered pretty lenient. It only became so several years after the Spring of Nations, earlier Austrian Germans were actually worse than Prussians and Russians, but FJ changed his politics, de-germanised the universities, re-established Wawel castle (earlier, Austrians changed it into stables), etc. they did support Ukrainians against Poles, they neglected Galicia (as a border province likely to be lost), they exhorted giant taxes from it, despite its pauverty, but, despite that, Austrians, or at lest FJ Habsburg, have left a good memory of themselves.

[Wezil]

No it isn't. Jews are nationality like any other and should be treaten like that. I often ask people what is their origin, simply because it's interesting, not because I want to harm them in any way.

Israel is a nationality and that wasn't what was asked. The question was creepy.

I've never asked nor been asked my religion in a business setting.

[Ben Kenobi]

What, you seriously think Germans were in a minority in Austria?

In the empire, yes, they were.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't know much about it, do You?
There were hardly any Germans in Galicia

It depends on how you define Galicia.

There were many more Germans in Cieszyn Silesia, 14% or so, but they didn't form a majority in any place but an isolated city of Bielsko.

I never said they were a majority, but the Austrians put these two regions together. Galicia also had the status of being directly under the authority of Austria, rather then under the Hungarians in the Dual Monarchy, which is why any who were still in the region of Galicia were relocated to Austria, rather then in other parts (Transylvania), where they were more likely to stay put.