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We are fighting 2 wars after all. If a use cannot be found in 2 wars, one wonders when a use will ever be found.
You are seriously arguing that?
Wow.
Does this mean that the US should disband their entire fleet of nuclear submarines because they are not useful in these two conflicts?
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The subs actually launched some cruise missiles so unlike the F-22 they have actually run combat missions during these two wars as well as during Kosovo.
The F-22 on the other hand has been completely useless.
And surely the Ticonderoga-class cruisers need to go, right?
And Asher, your UAV argument is retarded. UAVs have their uses, of course, but fully automating the armed forces strikes me as insane. A human can trick a computer any day - and yes, I understand that UAVs have human controllers behind the scenes, but that strikes me as just a bit too dependent on technology and communications security at the expense of the good ole Mark 1 Human.
If you really want to go back, I think it was stupid that McNamara completely cut the development of heavy bombers, in favor of ICBMs, 50 years ago. Automation is fine, but that decision cost us, among other things, the B-70 Valkyrie strategic bomber and has put us in a position now where our only "pure bomber" airframes are the ancient B-52s, of which there are very few left, and the B-1s/B-2s, of which we have too few and are too expensive, while we do still have a sizable force of ICBMs that are of no use at all to us, except in a deterrence role, which manned bombers could also easily provide.
Missile Cruisers like the Ticonderoga have proven themselves useful over and over and over again including the launching of missiles in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo. They're not going any where as they're so damn useful. The F-22 has its uses as well and that's why we have 141 of them right now with orders in place to bump the number up to 187. The question is do we need more then 187? Tons of analysts say no because it gets used to little and 187 should be enough especially since we're going to have over 400 F-15s helping them out for at least the next 20+ years.
The F-35 will be replacing three aircraft plus seven countries have already put down their hard cash to be the first to get them so the F-35 production is going to be many times F-22 production. Foreign purchases of the F-35 already amount to 138 to the UK, 131 to Italy, 85 aircraft have been ordered by the Netherlands, an unknown number to Canada but probably in the 50-100 range, 116 to Turkey, 75 planes with an option to buy 25 more from Australia, an unspecified number for Norway but Norway has spent $125 million in order to take part in the design specification process which means they're extremely likely to buy around 50+ aircraft, the Danes want to replace 48 F-16s so they'll be buying 40-50 F-35s. Hell, the F-15 is still selling strong around the world and likely will for years to come.
Meaning while Israel has said they want over 100 aircraft but will likely have to wait until the other orders are filled as will Singapore who will probably want 25-50 aircraft. In addition to these orders Finland, India, Brazil, Spain, and Taiwan said they're interested or maybe interested and all of this before the first plane has even been produced. Not even counting US demand (which is no doubt be far larger then any other purchaser) we already have demand for 700-900 planes (with the US orders likely to be ~700) so the F-35 is going to be a smashing commercial success even on its initial production run.
BTW just because the US doesn't buy more then 187 F-22 doesn't mean the plane is dead. Australia says they might want to buy some as does Israel and I'm sure there will be more to come (Korea, Taiwant, and Japan all have aging F-15s they might want to replace not to mention the gulf states). The F-22 is an expensive fancy toy but there is a need for air superiority fighters around the world so it can continue production based on foreign demand. Hell, even the F-15 continues to have strong export demand so there will be no shortage of demand for air superiority fighters.
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Oh, I agree the F-35 is a useful multi-role aircraft. Additionally, if the military is truly saying they don't want more F-22s, then that should be the end of the argument - politicians in general don't know ****.
Hey. Since this thing is never going to be used, but just looks really cool, can you guys just give me $200 million per plane (depending on how many you want people to think you have) and I can just photoshop a whole bunch of them for you?
I'll even give you a discount. $150 million a pop. Can't beat that!
If the whole goal is deterrence, you just need people to think you've got these things. And what better way to keep it real with wasteful military spending then by just giving me the money?
This is the thing the Norwegian government ordered large quantities of just a few months back. Typical.
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