Artists cannot design interfaces.

[Asher]

Sure, you have gmail right? Ever loaded up the "Terminal" theme? Fun, nostalgic, but i'm sure I'd have a happier and more efficient time with any of the other themes.

btw, most of Asher's HCI methods that he speaks of were originally discovered by artists and adopted by scientists for better understanding.

No, they weren't...you're a liar, and even worse at it than Ben.

[FrostyBoy]

Don't feel upset Asher, we still love you and your work is still important, don't give it up!

[DanS]

Sure, you have gmail right? Ever loaded up the "Terminal" theme? Fun, nostalgic, but i'm sure I'd have a happier and more efficient time with any of the other themes.

It is mystifying what I'm supposed to learn by a reference to an interface that was deliberately uglyfied.

[DanS]

.

[Asher]

You said it was a Bachelors in Architectural Studies.

The degree calls itself a BA in architectural studies, which is a Bachelors of Arts in Architectural studies.

Is it a BSC in architectural studies? No. It's a BA.

It's a BA because it's a BACHELOR'S IN ARCHITECTURE. This is because IT IS IN ITS OWN FACULTY, the FACULTY OF ARCHITECTURE. Do you not comprehend the nomenclature?

This is probably VERY confusing for a tiny mind like yours.

The UofT offers two programs.

http://www.daniels.utoronto.ca/programs/ba_architectural_studies

You can get a "BA in Architectural Studies", which "provide degree options for students wishing to study architecture as part of a liberal arts education." It is NOT what Architects take.

Architects get into the "Architectural Studies Major Program", in which you are granted a real Bachelors of Architecture and NOT a Bachelors of Arts in Architectural Studies which are very different things.

[Ben Kenobi]

Google is an absolutely fantastic example of an extremely Computer Science/HCI-centric approach to interface design over artists, which gave us monstrosities like Yahoo and Webcrawler.

They are slaves to empiricism.

This guy obviously didn't like it, because all he understood was his "feelings".

He's working from a different philosophy that says the pixel shade of blue doesn't really matter. I'm intrigued as to the metrics that google would use to show that shade x is superior to shade y?

For that matter, how do they determine a 'superior' shade?

You are saying such decisions have a quantifiable metric? Which metrics are these?

If the metric is simply the current user preference, then such a metric is not quantifiable, or scientific. Load times, for example are a quantifiable metric.

The other point, and this is the one that you are missing Asher, is that while Google is considered 'functional' it will never be used as a principle of great 'art'. It does what is expected of it, but hundreds of years we won't be talking about google at all.

You could replace the logo with 'Yahoo', and it wouldn't make a difference to the user. Or 'Bing' for that matter. The design is a success in that it does exactly what is needed, but a failure in the sense of establishing a brand.

[ShaneWalter]

You ****ing douchebag.

NOWHERE on that site does it have the word "Art". In your quote, it's there. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU ARE A LYING, DISINGENUOUS AND WORTHLESS SACK OF ****.

Seriously, you are beyond pathetic. Get SERIOUS help. You are a pathological liar.

No, the U of T does have a Bachelor of Art's in Architectural Science. It is listed, on the first page in the right hand margin as "BA Architectural Studies." Now, I'm guessing you saw that and assumed it meant Bachelor of Architecture. You were wrong. If you actually click on "BA Architectural Studies", scroll about half-way down the next page, you will find this paragraph:

Bachelor of Arts, Architectural Studies: Two Bachelor of Arts majors in architectural studies are offered by the John H. Daniels Faculty of Architecture, Landscape, and Design in collaboration with the Faculty of Arts and Science. The architectural studies programs provide degree options for students wishing to study architecture as part of a liberal arts education. The programs serve as an introduction to the discipline of architecture, focusing on the state of the art, current issues and emerging practices, all considered from critical, theoretical and historical perspectives. Studio courses in design and visual communications provide opportunities to learn practical, formal and analytical skills, and are augmented by advanced courses in allied design arts, such as landscape, furniture, graphic, and stage design.

You really should take a few breaths, calm down, and think rationally next time. At least, make a couple mouse clicks to see if you actually are right, before going off on a rant again.

[Asher]

No, the U of T does have a Bachelor of Art's in Architectural Science. It is listed, on the first page in the right hand margin as "BA Architectural Studies." Now, I'm guessing you saw that and assumed it meant Bachelor of Architecture. You were wrong. If you actually click on "BA Architectural Studies", scroll about half-way down the next page, you will find this paragraph:



You really should take a few breaths, calm down, and think rationally next time. At least, make a couple mouse clicks to see if you actually are right, before going off on a rant again.

Please read my post, and then read yours. The BA in Architectural Studies is not what Architects take, it's to "provide degree options for students wishing to study architecture as part of a liberal arts education." It's the kind of **** architectural critics may take, but not architects themselves. That degree is very clearly listed as a joint degree with the Arts faculty, which is also pointedly independent of the Faculty of Architecture.

Seriously, read what you quote. It backs up exactly what I said, and also demonstrates Ben to be a liar and you to be very poor at reading comprehension.

[-Jrabbit]

WTF does architecture have to do with UI design? It's apples and oranges. Asher, you've been suckered into a discussion that's irrelevant to your OP. Pretty ironic, considering the first sentence.

OK, on topic:

Interface design aims for both full functionality and intuitive operation (ease of use, fast learning curve). Successful designers tend to be pretty well-rounded -- technical, but with significant training in the liberal arts. From wiki:

Human factors practitioners come from a variety of backgrounds, though predominantly they are psychologists (engineering, cognitive, perceptual, and experimental) and physiologists. Designers (industrial, interaction, and graphic), anthropologists, technical communication scholars and computer scientists also contribute.

Significantly, most college programs in human factors grant a bachelor of science degree.

So, back to Asher's question:

IMHO, an artist can, in theory, come up with a great interface. Of course, the artist would need to know enough about coding (or industrial design) to do that side of things as well; clearly there's an engineering aspect that must also be mastered. Even with physical products, knowledge of materials and manufacturing techniques is critical. But artists are more open to tapping into insights, making intuitive leaps -- and that can create something unique and effective.

OTOH, in the real world, if you were in need of a UI for a technical product, the smart move is to assign an engineer/programmer, who are much more attuned to meeting the rigorous needs of the intended product design. The best UI designers in my experience are technical types who have a creative side and/or have studied human behavior -- and are open to the creative leap that unites basic functionality with intuitive usability.

I've seen a lot of technical products designed. I've overseen a lot of Web design, both large sites and small. To meet all basic customer needs and create a successful, well-accepted interface, my first choice is to go with the technical expert, preferably one committed to extensive user testing during the development process. But I generally want someone with a strong aesthetic sense on my team as well, to maximize the chance of that insightful leap that can carry a design from "effective" to "awesome." But understanding human behavior is the real key, and both camps can and should use it to be more effective in their design work.

When I hire a design firm for a new website, I gather all the technically proficient candidate firms and hire the one with a good track record of out-of-the-box thinking that results in unique, yet effective designs. Basically, I want that well-rounded approach. But if you can only have one, it's best to stick with the technical staff to ensure all critical bases are covered.

[Asher]

Anyone else want to say something really ****ing stupid before I go to bed?
^^ xpost with jrabbit

[FrostyBoy]

It is mystifying what I'm supposed to learn by a reference to an interface that was deliberately uglyfied.

It wasn't deliberately uglified, it was deliberately nostaligic. A time when artists couldn't break in because the technology wasn't there. I suppose if there were more artists in the industry during those days, the interfaces back then wouldn't have been so unfriendly to use.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's a BA because it's a BACHELOR'S IN ARCHITECTURE.

So the degree is a bachelor of architecture in architectural studies? That's just silly.

The degree says BA in Architectural studies, which means a bachelors of Arts in architectural studies.

Do you not comprehend the nomenclature?

Quite well. You've clearly missed it.

This is probably VERY confusing for a tiny mind like yours.

Insults weaken your position.

You can get a "BA in Architectural Studies", which "provide degree options for students wishing to study architecture as part of a liberal arts education." It is NOT what Architects take.

And that dear Asher is the point I was making. Thanks for playing.

[Asher]

It wasn't deliberately uglified, it was deliberately nostaligic. A time when artists couldn't break in because the technology wasn't there. I suppose if there were more artists in the industry during those days, the interfaces back then wouldn't have been so unfriendly to use.

Yes, artists should've designed terminal shells.

[SlowwHand]

For right or for wrong, Asher's point stands. He said Bachelor of Arts in Architecture.

[Asher]

So the degree is a bachelor of architecture in architectural studies? That's just silly.

The degree says BA in Architectural studies, which means a bachelors of Arts in architectural studies.



Quite well. You've clearly missed it.



Insults weaken your position.



And that dear Asher is the point I was making. Thanks for playing.

Architects do not take that program. It's like getting a BA in Computer Studies. This is another red herring from a disingenuous scumbag.

Go away, Ben. You've broken your promise to the mods. Lets see if they have the balls to follow through.