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  • Firefox "too expensive" for the State Dept....



    During the latest US Department of State Town Hall Meeting, secretary Hilary Clinton was asked to let the staff use Firefox.

    You can see it in the video below at 26:30.



    According to Under Secretary Pat Kennedy, the concern cost, not of the software (which of course is free) but the cost of deploying, training, and supporting a new piece of software in a world wide operation. Jim Finkle, the employee who raised the question also mentioned that the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency has already done it.

    It’s not news that Firefox has a long way to go before being more attractive for large IT deployments. Mozilla has been continuously asked for MSI packages in the past and while it has been targeted for some releases (Firefox 2 or 3, if I recall correctly), no one has stepped in to take care of this limitation.
    Full transcript:



    MS. GREENBERG: Okay. Our next question comes from Jim Finkle:

    Can you please let the staff use an alternative web browser called Firefox? I just – (applause) – I just moved to the State Department from the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and was surprised that State doesn’t use this browser. It was approved for the entire intelligence community, so I don’t understand why State can’t use it. It’s a much safer program. Thank you. (Applause.)

    SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, apparently, there’s a lot of support for this suggestion. (Laughter.) I don’t know the answer. Pat, do you know the answer? (Laughter.)

    UNDER SECRETARY KENNEDY: The answer is at the moment, it’s an expense question. We can --

    QUESTION: It’s free. (Laughter.)

    UNDER SECRETARY KENNEDY: Nothing is free. (Laughter.) It’s a question of the resources to manage multiple systems. It is something we’re looking at. And thanks to the Secretary, there is a significant increase in the 2010 budget request that’s pending for what is called the Capital Investment Fund, by which we fund our information technology operations. With the Secretary’s continuing pushing, we’re hoping to get that increase in the Capital Investment Fund. And with those additional resources, we will be able to add multiple programs to it.

    Yes, you’re correct; it’s free, but it has to be administered, the patches have to be loaded. It may seem small, but when you’re running a worldwide operation and trying to push, as the Secretary rightly said, out FOBs and other devices, you’re caught in the terrible bind of triage of trying to get the most out that you can, but knowing you can’t do everything at once.

    SECRETARY CLINTON: So we will try to move toward that. When the White House was putting together the stimulus package, we were able to get money that would be spent in the United States, which was the priority, for IT and upgrading our system and expanding its reach. And this is a very high priority for me, and we will continue to push the envelope on it. I mean, Pat is right that everything does come with some cost, but we will be looking to try to see if we can extend it as quickly as possible.

    How dumb people have to be?
    Why cant' smarter people install firefox for themselves?

    to be clear - i was involved with the IT of a very large unit (though not as large as the US state dept). I don't see a reason why firefox should be forbidden to download.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sirotnikov View Post
    http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/07/h...ment-of-state/


    Full transcript:






    How dumb people have to be?
    Why cant' smarter people install firefox for themselves?

    to be clear - i was involved with the IT of a very large unit (though not as large as the US state dept). I don't see a reason why firefox should be forbidden to download.
    If you were involved in IT of a very large unit, then you would see why it's forbidden.

    IT admins can strictly control IE settings on every computer under their control through Windows, remotely. They can enable and disable certain parts of it (eg, proxy use) and set fine-grained security settings via corporate policy.

    Firefox does not support this. This is why enterprises are dominated by IE.

    It may change if Firefox finally supports the MSI installer, which then lets Windows admins push the app out to all computers to install and hopefully configure as well. But that's only part of the problem, it will still never match the IE fine-tuning possible due to it being a component of Windows.

    Other factors: Firefox doesn't support NTLM out of the box. Many, many internal webpages/applications are dependent on the flawed rendering in IE6. It is very expensive to fix those apps up.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      When I worked for the air force I was told that firefox was too insecure and that I was therefore required to use IE. Fortunately for my sanity (I've come to rely on Adblock) they were unable to prevent me from using firefox portable.
      <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Asher View Post
        Other factors: Firefox doesn't support NTLM out of the box. Many, many internal webpages/applications are dependent on the flawed rendering in IE6. It is very expensive to fix those apps up.
        Are you drunk, high on some drug or simliar ?
        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

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        • #5
          No. Are you seriously unaware of this?

          Most companies I work with still use IE6 because of internal webpages that break on IE7/8 or Firefox.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Asher View Post
            No. Are you seriously unaware of this?

            Most companies I work with still use IE6 because of internal webpages that break on IE7/8 or Firefox.
            So what - any company that takes security seriously don't EVER use IE6 level. They may chose to be compatible but it's a pain in the ass, so if they can aviod it they do..
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
              So what - any company that takes security seriously don't EVER use IE6 level. They may chose to be compatible but it's a pain in the ass, so if they can aviod it they do..
              It's far more important to do business than to be secure. In their eyes, a restrictive firewall with overbearing antivirus means they're secure.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Asher View Post
                It's far more important to do business than to be secure. In their eyes, a restrictive firewall with overbearing antivirus means they're secure.
                Asher, I really think that you are on some serious drugs. Why the heck would any company adjust their sites to IE6 when this is clearly obsolete ???? Yeah, thay might do some quirks when they se an IE6, but the programming will be against FF and IE7+ - only loosers will stay on IE6.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

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                • #9
                  IE6 is the standard, I have heard.

                  JM
                  Jon Miller-
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                  • #10
                    IT folk are traditionally far more concerned with security than with business functionality. Specifically, job security.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                      Asher, I really think that you are on some serious drugs. Why the heck would any company adjust their sites to IE6 when this is clearly obsolete ???? Yeah, thay might do some quirks when they se an IE6, but the programming will be against FF and IE7+ - only loosers will stay on IE6.
                      I am just describing the business realities, BlackCat. I hate IE6, but it's around still because many companies rely on IE6 for internal websites which depend on its flawed rendering.

                      Yes, they are losers to stay on IE6, but they are losers typically without the manpower or budget to re-write it all to work for modern browsers.

                      Why do you think MS keeps providing companies with tools to prevent Windows Update and WSUS from installing IE7/8 over IE6? Why do you think companies still use them?
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am amazed. It is always expensive for everything they do, even though it should be...I don't know, really cheap. In my office we have the newest versions of MS word, excel, ppt, outlook, and one note *I am not big on software so don't ask*. Since most of our building don't know how to use outlook I made a PPT explaining the basics of it. There was a link in my email to the network page to get the download, now 85% of our building is on outlook. Everyone is amazed how easy it was, and now managers can see other managers calendars. Wow, so simple, so easy. It didn't cost a thing, and why is that? Because we have the software and it took no time at all to get everyone to get it.

                        State Dep, download firefox to the server, send a mass email to department heads, they disseminate info down to their people, people upload setup, and boom. Now that costs money how? What training is needed? "Can you read?" "yes" "can you click a mouse" "yes" "ok great we are ready" seriously, how dumb do they think people are?
                        "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                        "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

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                        • #13
                          Asher's got it right here.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
                            IE6 is the standard, I have heard.

                            JM
                            That is true - it's the standard web site programmers use most **** words about because they have to do strange things to get things working because they have to be backward compatible - fortunatedly, the guys handling this in my company is sitting a bit away from me, so I'm spared from their dirty words .
                            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                            Steven Weinberg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Asher View Post
                              I am just describing the business realities, BlackCat. I hate IE6, but it's around still because many companies rely on IE6 for internal websites which depend on its flawed rendering.

                              Yes, they are losers to stay on IE6, but they are losers typically without the manpower or budget to re-write it all to work for modern browsers.

                              Why do you think MS keeps providing companies with tools to prevent Windows Update and WSUS from installing IE7/8 over IE6? Why do you think companies still use them?
                              Well, I guess that we are actually in agreement after all

                              Though, I still think that any company that depends on IE6 and can't change is going to die. Actually, the faster they do, the better.
                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

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