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  • Irish child abuse

    I may have missed it, but I can't recall any thread about this :

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service



    Irish church knew abuse 'endemic'

    Victims spokesman John Kelly gives his reaction to the report

    An inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland has found church leaders knew that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions.

    It also found physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of institutions.

    Schools were run "in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff".

    The nine-year inquiry investigated a 60-year period.

    About 35,000 children were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses up to the 1980s.

    More than 2,000 told the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse they suffered physical and sexual abuse while there.

    The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry and deeply ashamed that children suffered in such awful ways in these institutions".



    It has devastated me and will devastate most victims because there are no criminal proceedings and no accountability whatsoever

    "This report makes it clear that great wrong and hurt were caused to some of the most vulnerable children in our society," he said.

    "It documents a shameful catalogue of cruelty: neglect, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, perpetrated against children."

    The five-volume study concluded that church officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders' paedophiles from arrest amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

    It also found that government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.

    The findings will not be used for criminal prosecutions - in part because the Christian Brothers successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report.

    Kevin Flannigan from the group Survivors of Child Abuse, protests at not being allowed into the launch of the long awaited Child Abuse Commission report
    Victims campaigners protested at being excluded from the news conference

    No real names, whether of victims or perpetrators, appear in the final document.

    Police were called to the commission's news conference amid angry scenes as victims were prevented from attending.

    One of the many victims, John Walsh of Irish Survivors of Child Abuse, said the absence of prosecutions had left him feeling "cheated and deceived".

    "I would have never opened my wounds if I'd known this was going to be the end result," he said.

    "It has devastated me and will devastate most victims because there are no criminal proceedings and no accountability whatsoever."

    More allegations were made against the Christian Brothers than the other male orders combined.

    The report found child safety was not a priority for the Christian Brothers who ran the institutions, the order was defensive in its response to complaints and failed to accept any congregational responsibility for abuse.

    Ritual beatings

    The report said that girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.

    The leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, the Most Reverend Vincent Nichols, said those who perpetrated violence and abuse should be held to account, "no matter how long ago it happened".


    The reformatory and industrial schools depended on rigid control by means of severe corporal punishment and the fear of such punishment
    Mr Justice Sean Ryan

    "Every time there is a single incident of abuse in the Catholic Church, it is a scandal. I would be very worried if it wasn't a scandal... I hope these things don't happen again, but I hope they're never a matter of indifference," he said.

    The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential.

    "The reformatory and industrial schools depended on rigid control by means of severe corporal punishment and the fear of such punishment," it said.

    "The harshness of the regime was inculcated into the culture of the schools by successive generations of brothers, priests and nuns.

    "It was systemic and not the result of individual breaches by persons who operated outside lawful and acceptable boundaries.

    "Excesses of punishment generated the fear that the school authorities believed to be essential for the maintenance of order."

    The report proposed 21 ways the government could recognise past wrongs, including building a permanent memorial, providing counselling and education to victims, and improving Ireland's current child protection services.

    Can this be excused in any way ?
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

  • #2
    Obviously not for the sexual abuse. The other abuse is somewhat more tangled because of the situation and the different times -- physical abuse used to be way more accepted than it is nowadays.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

    Comment


    • #3
      Quite true - beating was not so many years ago a part of proper upbrininging, an of course christian churches did the same to some extent. Though, considering their teachings, they shouldn't.
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

      Comment


      • #4
        abolish mandatory celibacy for catholic priests (and nuns). Abstinance is not health and breeds deviate perverted behaviour. Yes I always say that. But I still believe it to be true. These archaic rules must be eliminated. Innocent kids are being hurt here. Suppression of human urges is not a good idea.

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        • #5
          abolish mandatory celibacy for catholic priests (and nuns). Abstinance is not health and breeds deviate perverted behaviour.
          sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions.
          Yes, let priests marry women and they won't want to have sex with boys.
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            Yes, let priests marry women and they won't want to have sex with boys.
            u just watch. 10 more years without sex, and you'll be wanting sex with boys. sexual repression causes deviate behaviour.

            Comment


            • #7
              u just watch. 10 more years without sex, and you'll be wanting sex with boys. sexual repression causes deviate behaviour.
              I'll take that bet.

              How much you want to risk?
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                Yes, let priests marry women and they won't want to have sex with boys.
                Change
                Blah

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                  Yes, let priests marry women and they won't want to have sex with boys.
                  Of course, celibaterian practice makes this behavior much more likely. It's for the same reason that gay sex is much more common among sailors and in the military (unless there's plenty of looting making raping women an option). All shades of bisexuality are very common, so if you can't have a woman but sexual pressure...

                  Add to this a situation of rigid hierarchy, absolute power, and subordination - which triggers our worst personality elements and perversions (Milram experiment) -, then add that the subordinates are considered under-human ("asocials", "bastards" in this case, "terrorists" in Abu Ghraib...) and voilá!
                  "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                  "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've never abused a Irish child...
                    Speaking of Erith:

                    "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Of course, celibaterian practice makes this behavior much more likely.
                      So what you are saying is that most of these gay people aren't really gay? Interesting hypothesis. That would mean if you put a gay man in with really hot women that he'd have sex with them.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                        So what you are saying is that most of these gay people aren't really gay? Interesting hypothesis. That would mean if you put a gay man in with really hot women that he'd have sex with them.
                        How the f**k did you manage to come to that conclusion?!
                        Speaking of Erith:

                        "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                          "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How the f**k did you manage to come to that conclusion?!
                            It's simple. Werna states that if you take away women and leave only men, the straight men go gay.

                            Therefore, if you were to take away all the men and leave only women, then the gay man would go straight.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                              It's simple. Werna states that if you take away women and leave only men, the straight men go gay.

                              Therefore, if you were to take away all the men and leave only women, then the gay man would go straight.
                              Actually BK makes sense of W's statement here.



                              BTW I agree with W on his point. Human sexuality is a gausian distribution with bisexual being the most likley. I think about 50% of Gay people today and a larger % of straight people would probably identify with the other group in diferent cultural circumstances and be perfectly happy in their choice.
                              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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