Proof that Obama is a terrorist supporter

[Sirotnikov]

That's quite a statement. Had the guys blowing up stuff in London or Madrid concrete state-level support? Sure, it didn't bring down the international system immediately. Still it obviously poses a problem when people go around blowing up stuff in our cities I think.

I think they had funds received from sources in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Not actual state actors, but the fact the local state does not keep them in control has a big influence.

[BeBMan]

re funds: Could be, but that doesn't change my main point. Any state will have more trouble to "keep them in control" if there are lotsa guys supporting terror and/or serve as recruiting pool.

[DinoDoc]

Don't know, don't care - traffic accidents don't pose a prob to life in a civil society comparable to blowing up stuff and people to get your political will through IMO.

It's precisely your over blown reaction to such incidents that the terrorists seek. What existential threat did the people who attacks the UK and Spanish States pose to the civil society in the respective states?

[BeBMan]

It's precisely your over blown reaction to such incidents that the terrorists seek. What existential threat did the people who attacks the UK and Spanish States pose to the civil society in the respective states?

I don't know what you mean by "over blown reaction".

First, those attacks weren't *existential* threats, but then I never said they were. Still I do think terror is a prob even when our countries are not at the verge of total destruction from it. The RAF was a prob for Ger in its time like the IRA was for the UK. And Sept 11 while much larger in scale was hardly an "existential threat" to the US in the literal sense, yet it had (and still has) massive repercussions, otherwise we probably wouldn't even have this debate now.

And overall this still doesn't change my point from before, which is actually really simple - do we rather want to fight some nutjobs with only a limited circle of sympathizers/supporters, or are we better off when we have to deal with orgs that enjoy massive support from a larger and (for watever reason) hostile part of the Muslim population? Or do you think all those guys are more of the mercenary type and do terror only because they get state-support from somewhere? Why can't we simply bribe them all off if it's that simple....

[MrFun]

It's precisely your over blown reaction to such incidents that the terrorists seek. What existential threat did the people who attacks the UK and Spanish States pose to the civil society in the respective states?

Great - so 9/11 was no big deal then.

[Edan]

Focusing only on the good of America and only on the bad of the Muslim world is a disastrous, arrogant combination. Any discussion like this has to start with honesty. Honesty requires that we recognize the good parts of the Muslim world and the bad parts of America. Only through such honesty will people fully listen to a presentation of the good parts of America and the bad parts of the Muslim world.

That only works if you actually talk about the good parts of America and bad parts of the Muslim world (and scale them appropriately, so that someone doesn't equate unequal pay to rape or preventing schoolgirls from leaving a burning building)

And that doesn't even address the other issues that weren't even raised (eg, as mentioned, GLBT issues).

[Theben]

It worked with Meiji Japan. Gunboat diplomacy had a huge effect on their insular society.

Are you suggesting it would have been better had the Americans not intervened to open them up under Admiral Perry?

1st of all, this example bears no similarity to what was being talked about.

2nd, the incident as it were wasn't a "you stop being bad cuz we're good (bad)", it was more of a "Holy ****, we're way behind the times we need to modernize ASAP or we'll end up like those Chinese".

Incidentally their "insular" society also helped protect them against colonization by the West in earlier times.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Does anyone know what Obama was referrring to when he said the US (tax law?) doesn't allow people of Islamic faith to observe Zakat?

Is this an oblique reference to shutting down charities that are under indictment for money laundering?

[zakubandit]

Obama has already shown he supports terrorists with his known associate of Bill Ayers, the Weatherman Underground domestic terrorist.

In this speech he showed weakness to the extreme. Leftists say Bush was weak due to mistakes and miscalculations. But Bush never bent at the knees or grabbed his ankles for known enemies, for people who condone attacks on western nations. Obama is basically saying we are soo sorry and made every mistake, we are at fault, we deserved to get bombed. He has basically said we are murderers and deserve everything we have gotten.

[Theben]

You're cute.

[zakubandit]

And your an ideal candidate for the future America. Blind, ignorant, and a conformist thinker. Good for you.

[Theben]

There's that *you're* issue again.

[DaShi]

These ultra-conservative DL trolls are getting passe. Yeah, it was funny the first couple of times, but it's become the new panda joke. It's become derivative and uninspired. Let's just stick with Wiglaf, BK, DD, NGR, Civnation, that Canadian one, Ogie. . .well, you get the point.

[zakubandit]

You like the "your" they are just for you. DaShi, the truth of the matter is that as an off topic people like to discuss and usually argue their points. In my case I come on strong, my own fault as I try to not. I just like to be factual or straight forward, I don't care too much if someone's feelings get hurt. As long as they understand there is more than 1 view in the world.

[DaShi]

We know enough about the crazy right fringe. Hell, it's allover the media now. You're telling us nothing new.