It's official: Afghanistan is Vietnam

[Kitschum]

The Taliban didn't even exist as a group when the insurgency against the Soviets was being pressed.

The Taliban belong to a different generation, obviously. They are the sons of the anti-Soviet mujahedin and not insignificantly the refugees that fled that war to Pakistan.

And even accepting that they are not the same, the Pashtuns were radicalized by the Soviet war, and some of the Taliban's allies did fight the Soviets, like Hekmatyar.

[Berzerker]

Isn't that what they said about the surge in Iraq?

who is they and what did they say? I thought generals were put out to pasture for saying Bush's invasion force was far too small, the surge was merely trying to make up for that mistake by increasing troop levels and buying Sunni cooperation.. Where did the enemy have to hide?

We actually need for the Paki govt to be at war with the Taliban, and thats more like a civil war

[DanS]

The Taliban belong to a different generation, obviously. They are the sons of the anti-Soviet mujahedin and not insignificantly the refugees that fled that war to Pakistan.

I don't know that to be true. The Taliban seem to me to be a melange of Pakistani and Afghan (mostly Pakistani when there is any distinction between the two) folks. Lots of stories, probably.

And even accepting that they are not the same, the Pashtuns were radicalized by the Soviet war

Hardly. These folks have been radical forever. Churchill was writing about it 100 years ago, to name but one Western soldier fighting in the area.

[Kuciwalker]

Guys, the actual point of the OP was that historically, the "body count as a metric of success" was a horrible, horrible mistake in Vietnam and some seem to want to repeat it here.

[DanS]

Yeh, but it's so obviously a bad idea that there's no use discussing it. So we moved on...

I am curious why they think the public needs a bracer. Haven't heard any dissent about prosecuting the war -- just disagreement about the methods.

[RGBVideo]

"body count as a metric of success" was a horrible, horrible mistake in Vietnam and some seem to want to repeat it here.

You motivate the soldiers to kill evil enemies, resulting in less bad guys and thus, more peace. What could go wrong?

[RGBVideo]

Notice how the media doesn't talk about Iraq anymore? It's because the Iraq war is over. THE ONE stopped it, so there is no trouble to report.

[Drake Tungsten]

Haven't heard any dissent about prosecuting the war -- just disagreement about the methods.

GP and I are against it.

[DinoDoc]

I thought you wanted to pull out because you thought Obama wasn't actually fighting the war to win it. GP wanted to pull out due to his pussy Navy rants.

[DanS]

As far as I know, TCO isn't against the war per se. Rather, he is against the prosecution of a war with a substantial number of soldiers.

If I'm judging TCO correctly, he would probably go for fighting the war similarly to the way we fought it in 2001/2002 (minus the food trucks and food drops).

[Drake Tungsten]

I thought you wanted to pull out because you thought Obama wasn't actually fighting the war to win it.

No, I want us to pull out because the war is unwinnable given our expansive strategic goals. We've already achieved as much as we can realistically hope for in Afghanistan.

[Darius871]

If my film collection is anything to go by, the pull-out method is the most effective option available.

[Berzerker]

I thought you wanted to pull out because you thought Obama wasn't actually fighting the war to win it.

No, I want us to pull out because the war is unwinnable given our expansive strategic goals. We've already achieved as much as we can realistically hope for in Afghanistan.

killing or capturing the people responsible for 9/11 would be nice... Cant see that we 'achieved' anything other than spooking the prey into hiding.

[Drake Tungsten]

killing or capturing the people responsible for 9/11 would be nice...

They're not in Afghanistan.

[DanS]

I'm sympathetic to your view, Drake. But I don't think that treating Afghanistan as its own theater makes much sense.