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Originally posted by DanS
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no, the enemy had no safe haven in Iraq - it did and does in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Thats why the surge worked in Iraq but wont work in Pashtun areas. -
I'm getting confused with all those Vietnams. I think the Vietnamese try to take over the world. *insert remark about welcoming Vietnamese overlords*BlahComment
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Isn't that what they said about the surge in Iraq?Thats why the surge worked in Iraq but wont work in Pashtun areas."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Safe havens in Iraq were supposed to be Syria and Iran. That noise stopped as we began to at least put a lid on violence in Iraq. The "surge" worked in Iraq because we bought the opposition off. The Sunnis became our friends for pay, and Al Qaida overplayed its hand with anti-leader violence. Would you rather be paid and relatively safe, or fanatic and dead?
The Taliban seems to be made of sterner and more fanatical stuff. They threw the Russians out. Undoubtably, NATO doesn't look all that different to them.
Body counts are a bad idea when no one knows how many bad guys there are. The concept in WW II was that if 10 million of some nationality are strategically available, then counting the dead indicates allied progress to victory. Reporting the count in Viet Nam became very dicey as the VC pulled their bodies back into the tunnels and the NVA carried their dead and wounded away with them just as we did. Some Generals are said to have "estimated" the carry aways and included this guess in their reporting, and many returning soldiers claimed that they were told to count all the Vietnamese legs on the battlefield and divide by two, Thus did civilians become insurgents in death as they had not been in life. These misplaced incentives corrupt reporting, serve no real purpose, and undermine military credibility. Precisely who in America that believes the US is "losing" will be impressed by accounting for enemy dead? Next we'll be seeing these:
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All that was, will be again, good or bad. - Someone Famous
Last edited by Blaupanzer; June 2, 2009, 16:48.No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
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No they didn't.Originally posted by Blaupanzer View PostI came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Elaborate. Because that is the story they tell themselves, and that they teach in their namesake schools.
No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
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No they didn't.
QFTKH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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If you date the Vietnam war from the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (beginning of US "hot" war involvement) to the Paris Peace Accords (about a year after US de-escalation began), it lasted about 8 years; if you date it all the way to the fall of Saigon, it lasted 11.
Vietnam today is a relatively safe country with a burgeoning economy, a bright future, and no lingering animosity toward Americans.
Afghanistan = Vietnam? Jesus, we should be so f*cking lucky..."I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George CarlinComment
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You're ignoring American fatalities, of course. Seems a more important concern than the length of our involvement.KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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They are ignoring civilian casualties as well."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Roger that, Drake. The public seems to think 58,000 American deaths and 1 million + Vietnamese casuaties and a deeply split US political system was too much to pay to delay the inevitabe conversion of the south to Communism. Rufus, how did our delaying action serve the interests of either side in Viet Nam? Now answer the same question for Afghanistan. At least Iraq has oil.
No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, authorComment
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The Taliban didn't even exist as a group when the insurgency against the Soviets was being pressed.Originally posted by Blaupanzer View PostElaborate. Because that is the story they tell themselves, and that they teach in their namesake schools.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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So were the Soviets.Originally posted by Wezil View PostWe're sending little girls to school Che. How can you argue against that?
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Those were communist schools.Comment
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Fact is we won in Vietnam since they are capitalists now.Comment
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