The Ungovernable State

[Ben Kenobi]

Damn straight VJ.

When given the choice between a state failing and bailout, he'll choose bailout everytime.

[RGBVideo]

And you know this because he has bailed out the states of...?

[Ben Kenobi]

It does NOT mean that raising taxes by 5% will lower revenues by 5% or vice versa.

California is way past the 'saturation point'.

[Ben Kenobi]

And you know this because he has bailed out the states of...?

Michigan.

[RGBVideo]

California is way past the 'saturation point'.

You're talking out of your ass.

We know by empirical evidence that no state in the US is anywhere near the rate of t* displayed in the graph. Government revenues went down 4% when Reagan's admin and Congress cut taxes in 1981 by lowering the top rate from 70% to 50%, effectively proving that t* is over 70%(+whatever the state tax rate of the avg citizen) in the US. Current top rate is 35%.

Now you'd need to combine federal and state rates to know whether California tax burden is worse than it was in 1980, but there's no way in hell CA state tax is over 35 % points more than it was in 1980.

[Ben Kenobi]

We know by empirical evidence that no state in the US is anywhere near the rate of t* displayed in the graph. Government revenues went down 4% when Reagan's admin and Congress cut taxes in 1981 by lowering the top rate from 70% to 50%, effectively proving that t* is over 70%(+whatever the state tax rate of the avg citizen) in the US. Current top rate is 35%.

Wow, stunningly bad logic.

70 percent for the top bracket, not 70 percent for the average person. Terrible argument.

[RGBVideo]

Wow, stunningly bad logic.

70 percent for the top bracket, not 70 percent for the average person. Terrible argument.

Yeah, and you're supposed to calculate the avg state rate of avg person from the state of California (CA) with the avg rate of the avg person from CA, and calculating their exact values would require time and references.

The point is, tax rates in the 1970s were around AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE HIGHER than they are now, and your logic STILL didn't work -- US was on the left side of the highest-revenue point. Now that taxes have been cut, it's even FURTHER to the left.

[Ben Kenobi]

The point is, tax rates in the 1970s were around AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE HIGHER than they are now, and your logic STILL didn't work -- US was on the left side of the highest-revenue point.

Top margin was high, not sure about the overall burden.

[RGBVideo]

so you're saying that tax burden was lower when carter was in power in 1980 than it's now, right after 8 years of bush?

ok, whatever

[Arrian]

Not one of your "hopes" attacks the source of the problem, which is the existance of your prop system itself. This situation should be an object lesson for people trying to emulate CA politics.

Yep. I was very pleased when CT voted down a constitutional convention (the proponents of said convention wanted, among a couple of other things, to put in a prop system).

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

The point is, tax rates in the 1970s were around AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE HIGHER than they are now, and your logic STILL didn't work -- US was on the left side of the highest-revenue point.

That's actually highly controversial. Government revenues DID RISE in the 1980s. Though critics claim it was because of economic growth. Others, on the side of Kemp-Roth say that the cuts led to the growth, so they must be counted as well.

[KrazyHorse]

You're talking out of your ass.

We know by empirical evidence that no state in the US is anywhere near the rate of t* displayed in the graph. Government revenues went down 4% when Reagan's admin and Congress cut taxes in 1981 by lowering the top rate from 70% to 50%, effectively proving that t* is over 70%

No, what it proved, even under your overly simplistic assumptions is that the t* labeled on your graph is over 50%.

[Krill]

Can CA use jingle mail to get away from it's deficit?

[DanS]

Why not? There's a first for everything, and CA is an innovator.

[DanS]

A more definitive "no" from the administration.

Calif. Aid Request Spurned By U.S.
Officials Push State To Repair Budget

By David Cho, Brady Dennis and Karl Vick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, June 16, 2009

The Obama administration has turned back pleas for emergency aid from one of the biggest remaining threats to the economy -- the state of California.

Top state officials have gone hat in hand to the administration, armed with dire warnings of a fast-approaching "fiscal meltdown" caused by a budget shortfall. Concern has grown inside the White House in recent weeks as California's fiscal condition has worsened, leading to high-level administration meetings. But federal officials are worried that a bailout of California would set off a cascade of demands from other states.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/15/AR2009061503249.html?hpid=topnews