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  • Penn Jillette, Libertarian Nut.

    Penn Jillette: Why I’m a Libertarian Nut Instead of Just a Nut

    May 20, 2009 - 23:26 ET

    By Penn Jillette
    As Seen in Fusion Magazine

    I don’t speak for all Libertarians any more than Sean Penn speaks for all Democrats. I’m not even sure my LP membership card is up to date. I’ve voted Libertarian as long as I can remember but I don’t really remember much before the Clintons and the Bushes. Those clans made a lot of us bugnutty. When I go on Glenn’s show he calls me a Libertarian, I think that’s my only real credential.

    There are historical reasons and pragmatic reasons to be a Libertarian, but there are historic and pragmatic reasons to be a Democrat, a Republican or a Socialist. I don’t know if everyone would be better off under a Libertarian government. I don’t know what would be best for anyone. I don’t even know what’s best for me. What makes me Libertarian is I don’t think anyone else really knows what’s best for anyone. My argument for Libertarianism is simple - personal morality.

    I start with the Declaration of Independence: “Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” So, essentially our government does what they do with my consent.

    I know barely enough about Max Weber to type his name into Google, but it seems he’s credited with asserting the idea that the state has a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force. I put those two ideas together (my consent and use of physical force) and figure we all give our government the right to use force. So, the way I figure, it’s not okay for our government to use force in any situation where I personally wouldn’t use force.

    For example, if I’m not willing to kill a cute cow, I shouldn’t eat steak. I don’t have to kill Bessy right now with my bare hands, but I have to be willing to snuff her if I want to chow down on a T-bone. If it’s not okay for me, it’s not okay for a slaughterhouse. Asking someone else to do something immoral is immoral. If it’s not okay for me to break David Blaine’s hands so my magic show has less competition, it’s not okay for me to ask someone else to beat him up. Someone else doing your dirty work is still your dirty work.

    If I had a gun, and I knew a murder was happening, (we’re speaking hypothetically here, I’m not asking you to believe that I could accurately tell a murder from aggressive CPR), I would use that gun to stop that murder. I might be too much of a coward to use a gun myself to stop a murder or rape or robbery, but I think the use of a gun is justified. I’m even okay with using force to enforce voluntary contracts. If I were a hero, I would use a gun to protect the people who choose to live under this free system and to stop another country from attacking America. But I wouldn’t use a gun to force someone to love something like say…a library.

    Look, I love libraries. I spent a lot of time in the Greenfield Public Library when I was a child. I would give money to build a library. I would ask you to give money to build a library. But, if for some reason you were crazy enough to think you had a better idea for your money than building my library, I wouldn’t pull a gun on you. I wouldn’t use a gun to build an art museum, look at the wonders of the universe through a big telescope, or even find a cure for cancer.

    The fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority that don’t want to pay for it. If you have to use a gun, it’s not really a very good idea. Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It’s just ganging up on the weird kid, and I’m always the weird kid.

    People try to argue that government isn’t really force. You believe that? Try not paying your taxes. (This is only a thought experiment though -- suggesting someone not pay their taxes is probably a federal offense, and while I may be a nut, I’m not crazy.) When they come to get you for not paying your taxes, try not going to court. Guns will be drawn. Government is force.

    It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people yourself is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness. People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered. If we’re compassionate, we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.

    I’m a Libertarian nut because I don’t want my government to do anything in my name that I wouldn’t do myself.

    Penn Jillette is a celebrated magician, comedian, actor, author and producer. He is best known as the larger, louder half of Penn & Teller, a role he has held since 1975. With his partner Teller, Jillette has been awarded an Obie and an Emmy Award. Their critically acclaimed stage show spent several years both on and off-Broadway, and now has a permanent home at the Rio All-Suite Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas.

    Jillette can be seen weekly co-hosting the 11 time Emmy-nominated Showtime series. He also posts daily rants on his "Penn Says" VLog at Sony's www.Crackle.com site.




    I always knew he was evil.
    Last edited by The Mad Monk; May 21, 2009, 12:29.
    No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

  • #2
    Which part of the article reflects evil in your opinion? He is contending that anything the government pays for will be with money they took from all of us under the pressure called taxes. Ultimately that same government can use force to get those taxes, so you are coerced to pay for lots of things you don't necessarily want to support personally. Free Minds! Free Markets!
    No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
    "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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    • #3
      I never said it was a bad thing.

      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow, Blaupanzer. FAIL. TMM is a Libertarian Nut too.

        He is contending that anything the government pays for will be with money they took from all of us under the pressure called taxes. Ultimately that same government can use force to get those taxes, so you are coerced to pay for lots of things you don't necessarily want to support personally
        Yes, welcome to real life in any representative republic/democracy. If you can come up with a way to properly fund basic services without taxation, you go right ahead.

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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        • #5
          All I care about Penn Gillette is that he entertain me. His political views are inconsequential. His onstage schtick is a little tired now, but I loved P+T back in the day.

          I had dinner with them once (large table, about 15 people). Teller never made a sound in over 2 hours.
          Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
          RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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          • #6
            don't be dissin' Penn dammit! actually I don't care for his political views.

            I mentioned this a while back. While libertarian ideas may be decent in theory, they don't work in the real world. People are selfish *******s, that's why it doesn't work. People tend to horde all their money, and don't help others. Hording is the worse of the two. Money needs to be spent to keep the economy moving.

            Now if we lived in some hunter/gatherer society, then I could see it. But we don't. So libertarians can STFU.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Arrian View Post
              Yes, welcome to real life in any representative republic/democracy. If you can come up with a way to properly fund basic services without taxation, you go right ahead.
              -Arrian
              Do without the services. Start with stopping the Feds from funding any programs related to K - 12 education. The number of additional superfluous programs racks up real quick, especially when you look for a shred of support for their existance in the US Constitution. Many of the powers aggrandized to the Feds belong by virtue of the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution to the states or to the people. The "people" administer their powers by referendums. You'll be amazed how many "good for you" programs would disappear altogether if people could vote on keeping or losing them.
              No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
              "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

              Comment


              • #8
                Education is an interesting one. 50 years ago, it could have been more difficult, but now? How hard is it to homeschool? I think a significant number of kids would do better with homeschooling, and you don't have to commit to all the problems associated with the public school system.

                Imagine how much time you would save, if the only role of government was to have you write an examination, and if you passed, you had your high school diploma. The state wouldn't care how you got there, only that you managed to reach it.

                Secondly, it would also lower the high school graduation rate. I'm not convinced that all jobs need someone with high school, most people don't really have a need for all the theory that they do in high school. They have a need for practical knowledge, imagine if they did bookkeeping instead of calculus. You wouldn't be graduating people who are functionally illiterate as they do now, you'd do away with social promotion.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • #9
                  If you can come up with a way to properly fund basic services without taxation, you go right ahead.
                  Voluntary taxation would be interesting. If people really wanted something to be funded, say, roads, then you'd probably collect more in taxes then by forcing people to pay.

                  I think most people would be willing to put 10 percent in if they had more say into where the money would go.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Most people are myopic. Nothing would get funded.

                    The closest thing to a direct democracy in the US is California (with all those referendum)... and look how its doing.

                    Of course, when people say that those who use a road should be taxed on it (ie, through tolls), people go crazy about that as well.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                    • #11
                      The closest thing to a direct democracy in the US is California (with all those referendum)... and look how its doing.
                      People are tapped out. They aren't a limitless source of taxes to be milked.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Stop starting wars all over the world. That should free up some of the budget for tax cuts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                          People are tapped out. They aren't a limitless source of taxes to be milked.
                          Well someone is going to have to pay for all the programs that they seem to want and don't ever want to cut.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well someone is going to have to pay for all the programs that they seem to want and don't ever want to cut.
                            Other states, obviously. Obama would never allow California to fail. California is too big to fail, and Obama has 90 billion dollars to give to the states.

                            California is what, only 24 billion in the hole? Give half the 90 to California and your problem is solved for another year
                            Last edited by Ben Kenobi; May 21, 2009, 19:36.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              tldr. Summary?
                              You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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