Support for same sex marriage grows... ever stronger

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's see... the general breakdown of the family has been happening for a LONG TIME... out of wedlock babies... single parent families... All of it starting LONG before gays were given the right to marriage in very selective places... Your attempt to blame gay marriages on the breakdown of the family are silly at best. If it is a "contributing cause"... it is close to insignificant.

If I have a nail in my tire, I don't aim for the glass.

[Ben Kenobi]

And I like to know what happened to the catholic church. I guess since gays weren't really an issue when I was young there wasn't a focus for all the hatred. The catholic church I grew up in went out of their way to preach tolerance and acceptance. It was a higher moral ground that you could be proud of. Now I'm ashamed to admit I'm catholic (oh the child boinking priests are icing on the cake). No wonder their number is dropping.

Why call yourself one? If you don't like being targetted by all the hatred that the world has for Catholicism, then you can simply walk away, no muss, no fuss.

I was attracted to it, because I realised that the world hated Christ so much, they crucified him. He was entirely innocent and they scourged him for nothing more then preaching the way the truth and the life to all who will hear.

The truth is that the hippies, everything goes generation ruined the Church in America. Thankfully, the Church is global and is beginning to recover. The same generation wants the Church to destroy itself by drinking the same cool-aid which permitted sex abusers to operate with impunity.

[Ming]

Nahhh... the church is responsible for it's own destruction... Priests who target boys, the church's willingness to cover it up, and basiclly just move the priests to new parishes where they can start all over again... The Church's hypocracy on many issues... it's inability to keep step with it's members... tons of things. The catholic church only has itself to blame for it's problems.

If I have a nail in my tire, I don't aim for the glass.

Another moronic comment... Hetrosexual couples are the cause for the family problems.
Couples having sex out of marriage and having kids... Fathers who won't stick around and take responsibility... and just how is gay marriage at fault for that. Oh that's right, it's not.

[Ben Kenobi]

the church is responsible for it's own destruction

So there's no coincidence with the fact that these things took off during the sexual revolution. Right. It's all a coincidence that the free love generation blames everything else but their own ideals.

[Ming]

Yeah... blame the free love generation for priests who molest children. And yeah, the free love generation was the reason why the church covered it up, and let the priests continue to molest other children... Right!

It's amazing that some people can't see what's staring them in the face. The problems with the Church were caused by the Church. Quit looking for others to blame for your problems... pretty typical of your generation.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's amazing that some people can't see what's staring them in the face. The problems with the Church were caused by the Church. Quit looking for others to blame for your problems... pretty typical of your generation.

How on earth are we responsible for problems that we've inherited.

Look, it's your church Ming, 40 years you've been a part of it. I'm glad that this stuff is coming out in the wash now so it can be fixed.

You seem to believe that the problem is endemic to the church and if they embrace free love all this will go away.

[Ming]

No... it has nothing to do with "free love"... it has to do with them fixing the problem.
You are the one trying to blame somebody/something else for all the problems. The problems rest totally with the church. And they have to fix them. Stop blaming others for the church's problems. Nobody "made" the church let child molesters continue to do their thing. It was the church concerned about MONEY instead of the right thing.

[Q Classic]

If I have a nail in my tire, I don't aim for the glass.

Actually, that's precisely what you're doing, aiming for the glass.

No, scratch that. You have a plank in your eye, a nail in your tire, and you're aiming for a teeny, tiny, ****ing distant child licking a lollipop with your unloaded Desert Eagle.

You're claiming that gay people wanting to get married outside your religion are somehow ruining the fabric of society by breaking down the family. I hate to break it to you, but all of that **** predates the gay movement.

You're a ****ing homophobe, a bigot, is all it is. It's no surprise you can't admit it; I'm sure Nathaniel Bedford Forrest didn't think he was a bigot, but doing God's work instead.

But yes, cast judgement on others, sinner, and keep throwing those stones from your glass house. Wonder why people dislike you. He who will not listen...

[Q Classic]

That may be true for you, but on average, people who go to church and pray together see negligible divorce rates.

Divorce is far less likely when you have two people who take their religion seriously, and practice together.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

I don't see any Romans around anymore. We should be emulating dead societies?

It wasn't homosexuality that brought down the Romans. For a historian, you seem to have some misguided understandings.

You are changing what the definition means. It's like buying box seats to the cubs game, and finding out that the head office has redefined the meaning of 'box seats' to include bleachers so that the bleachers aren't left out.

Actually, I think the analogy is more like this: Ming bought box seats to a Cubs game (his straight marriage). Turns out, they've done some renovation to the field, and added a bunch more box seats because of demand. Only these are on the other side of the field (gay marriage).

So we should allow anything to go? Why not allow people to marry children? Some cultures have a huge role for child marriage. Why not let people choose to do what they want to do?

When I read folks like Chaucer who actually wrote in those days, I hunger for that society. I wish there were more people like Chaucer today who saw marriage and love in the same way.

There are, but you're so full of hate and bigotry that you seem to think that people who do have it shouldn't embrace it.

We don't even know how to love properly these days. We have lost our touch badly. Perhaps I'm wrong to look for a Griselda, but they are still out there.

You don't know how to love properly. There are plenty of others who do. Perhaps I'm wrong to look for the right man, but I'm sure he's out there. Who the **** are you to tell me that what I'm looking for, or the kind of partnership I want is wrong?

Why should we have rules like thou shalt not kill, to others who don't share my understanding of God? That's a commandment. If you don't believe in God, why do you believe that murder is wrong?

I don't believe in God, but I think murder is wrong. Why? Because I think it'd ****ing suck if someone killed me, and I wouldn't want to ruin someone else's day.

What of the "love one another as you would love yourself"? Clearly, you either hate yourself, which is why you're bigoted, or you're failing that request by some holy man rather miserably.

The same is with marriage. Take religion out of marriage, and you have the shell.

Who the **** are you to judge what makes a good marriage?

Well first you have to get a woman who's not been scarred by the crap that's gone on. Then you have to hope they still have enough hope in them to go for marriage despite everything.

So, gay marriage strikes terror into the hearts of all women?

We should be building marriage up, not watering it down.

You're hardly building marriage up.

Have you ever read any medieval literature? Amazing, amazing stuff. Blows anything we do today out of the water, particularly on love. People knew how to love in those days, and I find it hilarious in a culture starved for true love that we pass judgement on their 'loveless marriages'. What would they think of all the folks shacked up, not even trusting their hearts to each other?

For a sinner, you're awfully quick to judge.

Yeah, it sucks to be a Christian when your home gets overrun by Muslims.

Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"? One religion's douchitude doesn't make yours better.

And I honestly am worried about the state of Canadian society. It's been a good run for the west, what 300 years?

Actually, your notion of the West, and your yearning for Medieval society, that had a good run for about a millennium. And then most people got fed up with it and decided to move on with their lives.

[MikeH]

Is it ok just to close threads that irritate me?

[Ming]

Q Classic did a good job of disecting your last long piece of nonsense, but there are a couple of things I just couldn't pass on...

I'm not saying they can't be close. I'm saying that on average, those who attend church together are closer then those who for whatever reason do not.

You can't prove that... Plus, just how do you know how close people's relationships are? Many wife beaters do a very good of hiding the fact that they are abusing their wife. The point is, there is no way you as an outsider can truely know just how close another person's relationship is.

Now, there's a good question. If we start from the assumption that homosexuality has always been around, why haven't we seen nations change their definition to accommodate homosexuality? My answer is that it has been tried, proved to be disastrous, and the nations quickly revert or they die. Simple, stark choice.

You want to provide some example of that...

I resent being a guinea pig. Honestly, I'm looking forward to the coming social changes, when we see euthanasia introdroduced. Then you'll get a chance to see what change feels like when other people do it to you.

More moronic crap... you are now equating somebody killing you to gay marriage. There is one fact in life... that change happens.

I don't see any Romans around anymore. We should be emulating dead societies?

Nice try... but you still aren't admitting that the statement you made was dead wrong and not even close to fact.

The way the law up here works is that it is automatic. If you move in with your girlfriend, and live with her for longer then 2 months, you are considered married. If you subsequently break up with her, or she breaks up with you, she's entitled to alimony and child support as she is considered to be married to you. No consent required, no public commitment.

Not even close Ben... you just seem to keep making things up. Again, a simple google search shows what a lie this is... The following kind of shows just how wrong you are:

Canada
In Canada, the legal definition and regulation of common law marriage fall under provincial jurisdiction. A couple must meet the requirements of their province's Marriage Act for their common-law marriage to be legally recognized.

According to the Canada Revenue Agency, as of 2007, a common-law relationship is true if at least one of the following applies:

a) the couple have been living in a conjugal relationship for at least 12 continuous months;

b) the couple are parents of a child by birth or adoption; or

c) one of the couple has custody and control of the child (or had custody and control immediately before the child turned 19 years of age) and the child is wholly dependent on that person for support.

For a full, up to date CRA description go here: Marital Status

In many cases common law couples have the same rights as married couples under federal law. Various federal laws include "common-law status," which automatically takes effect once two people (of any gender) have lived together in a conjugal relationship for five full years. Common-law partners may be eligible for various federal government spousal benefits. As family law varies between provinces, there are differences between the provinces regarding the recognition of common-law marriage.

In 1999, after the court case M. v. H., the Supreme Court of Canada decided that same-sex partners would also be included in common-law relationships.

So we should allow anything to go? Why not allow people to marry children? Some cultures have a huge role for child marriage. Why not let people choose to do what they want to do?

I've always maintained that it should be up to consenting adults. I don't think children are in a position to truely consent.

When I read folks like Chaucer who actually wrote in those days, I hunger for that society. I wish there were more people like Chaucer today who saw marriage and love in the same way.

We don't even know how to love properly these days. We have lost our touch badly. Perhaps I'm wrong to look for a Griselda, but they are still out there.

Yeah... the good ole days, when women were treated like property, where marriages were arranged by parents when sometimes, they had never met each other before. Where for the price of a cow, you could get somebody to take your daughter off your hands... When many marriages were set up for economic or political reasons... ah yes, true love.

Why should we have rules like thou shalt not kill, to others who don't share my understanding of God? That's a commandment. If you don't believe in God, why do you believe that murder is wrong?

Oh... so only people that believe in god can understand the concept of right and wrong... That's what laws and common sense are for.

The same is with marriage. Take religion out of marriage, and you have the shell.

Yep... without religion, it is impossible to share true love and commitment with somebody... BS.

We should be building marriage up, not watering it down.

You have to explain why gay marriages would water down your own marriage.
Are you really saying that true love between a hetrosexual couple changes because some gay couple, who are strangers to you, get married. You are the one that can't even begin to understand true love if you think this.

Have you ever read any medieval literature? Amazing, amazing stuff. Blows anything we do today out of the water, particularly on love. People knew how to love in those days, and I find it hilarious in a culture starved for true love that we pass judgement on their 'loveless marriages'. What would they think of all the folks shacked up, not even trusting their hearts to each other?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA... There is a reason why they call it fiction. Yeah, all those wonderful times when people were having affairs because they didn't love their partners from forced weddings... the good ole days.

Do you have evidence that the church forced people into marrying?

Not the church... THEIR PARENTS! The church just went along with it.

Yeah, it sucks to be a Christian when your home gets overrun by Muslims.

Yeah, it sucks to be a Muslim when you home gets overrun by Christians.

[MikeH]

Most religions took their laws from what was already illegal / rules that societies had in place to make them work.

It's not like murder wasn't against the law in Egypt before the Israelites left (if that happened)

[Sava]

pretty typical of your generation.

ageism

[Bosh]

When I read folks like Chaucer who actually wrote in those days, I hunger for that society.

Ye gods, in these debates you usually have people mocking the fundies for wanting to turn the clock back to the 14th century but you don't normally have the fundies actually go along with that.

Pining for the 14th century is so unbelievably moronic that I don't even know where to begin...

In any case Ben, you have really no idea what you're talking about. I doubt that you have the slightest idea what its like to be part of a marriage. Getting married really doesn't change much of anything at all it just helps tie up some legal loose ends. Now having a child, that's taking a sledgehammer to absolutely everything there is in your previous life and starting over. The magnitude isn't even remotely comparable.

[MrFun]

BK's "arguments" are unbelievably STUPID.

fact