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Hereuntoforthwith, "hypocracy" is the new "hypocrisy"

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  • Hereuntoforthwith, "hypocracy" is the new "hypocrisy"

    1. Suppose I am with Smith. He points and says to me: “What a pretty girl that is!” But I reply: “Smith, I’m not so sure that’s a girl.” How could we check this? “You ought to look for a penis.” But why would this be conclusive? The first problem: what kind of a role do propositions like “that girl is pretty” play?

    2. “The general form of a proposition is: This is how things stand.” A proposition makes a picture of reality. It says: “Things are like this!” It points to something - “That’s what it’s like!” For the proposition to have a sense I must understand what it is pointing at. I must know what the picture is representing. A proposition on its own does not explain anything past: “It’s like this!”

    3. But the game goes beyond pictures. Suppose I have a certain picture in mind when I hear the word “girl.” “A girl - they’re thus and so.” I do not know if this is the same picture that everyone else has. But I never think about this. Suppose that I were to say, without any philosophical intention: “That’s a girl.” When I tell this to someone, the thought never crosses my mind that this “girl” is only my own picture. I feel no need to add, “By ‘girl’ I mean they’re without any kind of dick, etc..” Conversation could not proceed if we prefaced every sentence with a series of definitions and axioms. (in any case this would not eliminate the problem)

    4. I don’t think about a picture that I have, the picture that you have, or whatever all the pictures might share in common. I only say: “that girl,” “this girl,” etc..

    5. “That’s a girl” - something is queer about this sentence. When would I say this? This moves us from one subject matter to another.

    6. Suppose I’m working a problem on the blackboard. Afterwards Jones tells me, “You’ve made a mistake, look!” And it turns out that I didn’t carry a number somewhere. I wouldn’t hear this and tell him, “No, this is a question of taste.” Mathematics is not a matter of “appreciation.”

    7. “You made a mistake!” This disagreement can happen because Jones knows the rules of what I am doing. He knows how it is properly done, and how you might make an error. A grade school teacher instructing children: “This is how you do mathematics.”

    8. Jones tells me he’s going to work a math problem. He goes to the blackboard and begins to write poetry in blank verse. I wouldn’t say: “You’re making a mistake!“ Instead I would tell myself: “I don’t know what Jones means when he says ‘math.’” The poetry is sensible, but only in a different game than I expected.

    9. “What a pretty girl that is!” “I don’t think that’s a girl.” I shouldn’t say that Smith is making an error, but that we don’t agree on what girls are.

    10. Think of a scenario where everyone keeps a girl in a box. These girls may be completely different, (one is short, another tall, another has a penis, etc.) but no one is allowed to look into another’s box to see what kind of girl they have. But this comes to nothing: here I can still talk about girls with others without knowing at all what they keep in their own box. What matters is how the girl is used, and everything else comes out in the wash. You can simply drop the girls in the boxes altogether.

    11. Smith says: “That girl is pretty.” What he says could be understood in two ways. First, as simply two distinct propositions “P(x) = x has no penis” and “Q(x) = x is pretty,” or second as under the argument “((P(x) → Q(x)) & P(x)) ∴ Q(x).” In the second case Q(x) fails if x has a penis (Smith only intended to call x pretty because he believed x was a “girl” in the strict sense). But I do not take back a compliment to well-cooked trout because I believed I was actually eating salmon. (I simply meant this food here)

    12. A and B attend a concert.
    A: “That Brahms piano piece was really beautiful.”
    B: “Well, that was by Beethoven, not Brahms.”
    A: “It was beautiful just the same!”
    It is reasonable to say: even if x fails the criterion for lacking a penis, Smith thinks x is pretty. This sounds like an aesthetic judgment.

    13. Problem: are sexual judgments aesthetic? I want to say: they are like aesthetic judgments. Then the question is what is meant by aesthetics.

    14. I have a friend who is a great collector of Middle Eastern art. But I would not say that he understands it. You have to distinguish between aesthetic understanding and aesthetic enjoyment. The latter is much more queer. It does not describe a state of affairs. “How lovely!” - what does this say?

    15. How does a musician judge a piece of music? They evaluate it according to a set of rules. “This modulation is too rough... the brass section is too loud here... what a stately finale!” I do not evaluate a single piece of art, but an entire tradition. Here I don’t say that a work is beautiful or ugly, only whether it agrees with the tradition. When an enthusiast judges the same piece, he may say: “It just clicks for me!” To understand what this means, we would have to describe the enthusiast’s entire biography. This is obviously impossible.

    16. “What a pretty girl!” Not an empty thing to say. The girl accords with Smith’s likes. Why? Well, she just “clicks!” She “fits” for him. But say she does turn out to have a penis. Smith may say that he wouldn’t have made the exclamation had he known. But she was pretty. But her appearance counted as a valid move in Smith’s game.

    17. Assume two different games with a superficially similar set of moves. I respond to the efforts of my opponent in a way appropriate to the rules I’m following - this does not mean that he is playing the same game.

    18. Say Jones visits China and accidentally interprets someone’s broken furniture as art. But doesn’t it still “fit” as art?

    19. I am repeatedly using these words even though in sexuality there’s really nothing which clicks or fits at all. “It fits!” is not a picture of anything.

    20. How do we know: “that’s a boy, that’s a girl”? Where do we learn this? Rudimentary biology. But this has nothing to do with sexuality. I can imagine situations where typical sexual biology breaks down.

    21. In the last half-century or so it has become fashionable to think of people as either “heterosexuals” (men attracted to women and women attracted to men) or “homosexuals.” (just the opposite) This gives people the impression that eventually biology and psychology are going to perfectly explain “sexual aesthetics.” This is why Freud is so misleading. But what am I doing when I try to “explain” something like this?

    22. Suppose Freud explains someone’s dream. What he and they are looking for is an explanation that fits. “Well, that makes sense!” - this is no different from “how lovely”!

    23. Suppose Smith gets a little drunk one night and accidentally has sexual relations with someone who has a penis. Or, suppose he abuses himself to a picture which is actually of a boy rather than a girl. Surely we can’t blame him for this, everyone will make bad choices now and then. But how do I understand what has happened?

    24. I am thinking of a very “heterosexual” man. This person, aside from a perhaps unhealthy fascination with more adolescent types, has shown little interest in intercourse with other males before. Now suppose that this man has an ill-conceived liaison with what he thinks is an attractive young girl, whom he finds out later in flagrante delicto is actually an extremely feminine boy. Furthermore, let us assume the sexual encounter proceeds as planned, albeit with new methods. Does modern sexual psychology have a term for this?

    25. What I am trying to do is to bring out a disguised sexual confusion as an obvious confusion.

    26. Freud would say my encounter was the result of suppressed sexual tendencies. Well, perhaps. But I wouldn’t agree to this right off. I could think of other explanations.

    27. “That’s a girl!” “No, she has a penis.” Is this a contradiction? What is the “penis” doing here?

    28. “I don’t really know what counts as a girl anymore.” This is queer. I do know - “Girls are like this!” But despite the penis, everything is valid within the game.

    29. Say A were to play Bach in a jazz style, with various kinds of improvisation - would this still be Bach? “That chord sounds queer there.” Is a queer chord similar to a penis?

    30. A follows the rules in one sense and breaks them in another. I want to say: a penis is like this as well. A penis seems normal here and queer there. But the game is undisturbed.

    31. “So you can have intercourse with a girl who has a penis and not be a ‘poof’? (as the English say)” I wouldn’t say this. I would ask: how are you using the word “poof”?

    32. It is very easy to take a young boy for a young girl - the curves are the same in many places. What do I mean by the same? How do I judge this?

    33. Say I was to place a large number of penises side by side. They will vary greatly in terms of length, color, etc.. A queer thing to say: “They must have something in common, or they wouldn’t all be penises!” You ought not say this at the start. You have to look at all of them and tell from there. You find one schlong that is such and such a length, and it will be similar to some, but there will be others of a shorter or longer length. Some schlongs will be skewed this way, some will be circumcised, some erect or flaccid, etc.. You could conclude of this collection, after comparing them all, that “a penis is like this and this,” but that doesn’t always account for all that you might find. You can always say: “There might be another penis not like these.” We should instead think of schlongs in terms of resemblances, such as those between family members. This one is short, fat, and rather pale; it relates to this other which is pale and long, which in turn relates to this third which is long and rather dark. They are all penises even though the first may have little in common with the third. Think of a spider weaving a web: its use is in the constant criss-crossing of some threads with others, even though not all the threads have to be connected. I mean the same thing with “girls and boys are the same in many places” as I do for “these are all dicks.”

    34. Smith is playing poker with some friends. He believes twos are wild, and only when the game ends is he told otherwise. He plays one game in his head without realizing that he really plays a somewhat different one. Being aroused by an effeminate boy is like this.

    35. “He plays one game in his head...” This is a queer thing to say. I do not play poker in my head.

    36. Say I did have sex with a boy who initially thought was a girl. Say I decided, at the end of it all, that I’d had enough of girls, that I now found them too boring, and I would now privilege effeminate boys in my sexual entertainment. (this seems somewhat queer: is sexual intercourse like a motion picture?) I think I would have to get extremely drunk in order to admit this to myself. (“admit to myself...” - what kind of an action is this?)

    37. Jones tells me: “You’re going to hell, Wittgenstein!!” I would say: “I’m sorry. I don’t connect any meaning to those words. (yet)” But I know what he means in one sense and not another. I don’t know what hell is. But I understand what he’s telling me.

    38. I have read that hell is a place for guilty people. An English saying: “guilty as hell!” I know I’m guilty, but I don’t know about hell. So I understand Jones here but not there. A problem: what does it mean when I say, “I’m guilty”? For I’m not just saying I was responsible for x. I want to say: I feel a certain way about it.

    39. “I’m guilty” - now a proposition describing responsibility. “I’m guilty” - now an expression. Suppose I hypothetically scapegoat a misjudgment I made onto Smith. Smith is now the one who thought the girl (with a penis) was pretty, rather than myself. I do not make myself any less responsible, but I no longer feel as guilty. This is useful sometimes for relieving anxiety, and in this case for pedagogy. (“relieve anxiety” - is anxiety like a weight?)

    40. Say after the first incident, which was accidental, I now feel a lot of sexual desire for young effeminate boys. I know that this is a situation where I should feel very guilty. Where did I learn this? Parents, etc.: “This is how you know when you’re guilty as hell.”

    Original may contain dongs.
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  • #2
    Christ Almighty, I'm glad you're back.
    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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    • #3
      Are you and Pekka related?
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        Hereuntoforthwith, you have been missed!
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #5
          Could you rephrase that?
          "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
          "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
          "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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          • #6
            I prefer hippocracy. I welcome our new horse overlords...
            Speaking of Erith:

            "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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            • #7
              Impressive post.

              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

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              • #8
                So, your point is what exactly?
                "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                • #9
                  My point is that hereuntoforthwith you are banned from my thread.
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                  • #10
                    Wow... Like, Wow...
                    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                    • #11
                      This sounds like filosofy... and I like it
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #12
                        I've tried to read this thread four times now and have been foiled by ADHD. Or something else entirely. But I am still very impressed. Your mind is as wicked as any.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #13
                          Nah, credit where credit's due, follow the red link at the bottom of the OP. Warning: dongs.

                          I've never been one for philosophy. I prefer to write Final Fantasy fan fiction.

                          Teh Trouser Fiend

                          One day Terra was walking through the park when suddenly she saw Tifa.

                          "Hey Tifa," said Terra.

                          "Hey Terra," said Tifa.

                          The two girls kissed and made out for awhile, and then Terra said "goodbye" to Tifa and kept walking.

                          But little did Terra suspect that Yuffie had stolen her trousers while she had been making out with Tifa!

                          So Terra didn't have any pants, and was sort of embarrassed about being forced to flaunt her love pudding to the entire world. It was fine to show Tifa her womanhood, but the last thing that Terra wanted was for Celes to see her quimmy goodness.

                          Just then, Celes showed up, and laughed and pointed at Terra's partial nudity.

                          "Tee hee hee, I see that you are not wearing any trousers," said Celes.

                          "You shut up," said Terra.

                          Then the two girls make out, and clambaked one another until their love juices had mingled and cooled their tempers.

                          "Yowza," said Celes, "that was some hot lesbian sex."

                          But then Celes noticed that her trousers were also missing now, and she wept in shame.

                          "Oh no," said Celes, "if Aeris sees that I have rectal warts then she will be so mad that she will no longer want to lick my hynie!"

                          Just then Aeris happened by the two half-naked women, and gasped.

                          "Terra, Celes, you are missing your trousers!"

                          Terra and Celes then noticed that Aeris was also not wearing any pants.

                          "Aeris," they said in unison, "you are also missing your trousers!"

                          And then all three girls made out with each other, and Tifa joined in and also had her trousers stolen in the process, and the four girls all had hot steamy lesbian sex for the next, like, five hours or something. Tifa, being a thief, had recently robbed an adult toy shop and came equipped with multiple tentacles and buttplugs and other assorted necessities. Celes was well pleased, because now she could be violated without running the risk of transmitting her rather embarassing veneral disease to the other girls.

                          Then after they had finished having sex with their various whips and chains and handcuffs and whatnot, they all vowed to retrieve their trousers or die trying.

                          "This shall not stand!" cried Tifa.

                          "I agree," said Celes. "Unless I retrieve my trousers quickly, then Setzer will see that I am not a natural blond, and he will be very mad and might not give me what for for another week or worse!"

                          The other three girls commiserated with Celes's plight, for they well knew that Setzer was not beyond demanding that Celes bleach her pubic mound. So they all went to Yuffie's secret hideout, where they were assaulted by tentacle demons.

                          "Oh no," said Terra, "tentacle demons!" And with that one of the demons filled her honey pot with its gargantuan love machine.

                          "No, not in my poop chute," said Tifa. "I nearly came the last time you filled me."

                          Several hours later the tentacle demons' seed was spent, and they let the girls go. So the girls finished walking up the long path to Yuffie's evil castle hideout thing.

                          They came to the front door of the castle, and rang the doorbell. "Who dares to ring my doorbell?" roared Yuffie. "It's us," said the girls, "we want our trousers back, it's getting a bit drafty." "I didn't steal your trousers," said Yuffie. "Yes you did," said the girls. "Oh, okay, come on in and get your trousers back," said Yuffie. Then the front door to the evil castle opened as if by magic or remote control.

                          And there the girls saw Yuffie sitting atop a throne of trousers. "Grrr," said Tifa, "you have stolen your last pair of trousers, you fiend." "Don't be mad," siad Yuffie, "let's have sex." And so all five girls had sex, and when they stopped several hours later they noticed that the trouser throne was missing, and so were Yuffie's trousers. "Oh no," they all said, "now there is a new trouser thief! Oh no!"

                          TO BE CONTINUED...
                          Last edited by loinburger; May 9, 2009, 21:53.
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                          • #14
                            So, did X have a penis or not? And regardless of whether x did or did not have a penis, did you agree with Smith's aethetic judgement of X?
                            If you don't like reality, change it! me
                            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                            • #15
                              You are missing some of the FFs.

                              JM
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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