F-22 will see no more orders, VH-71 cancelled

[Saras]

Analysis by Dr.War Nerd:

http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/

[Lancer]

Thank you Saras, what a refreshing analysis.

[Patroklos]

Yes, Carriers are vulnerable, but they are self-contained US airbases, with everything needed to keep their airwings carrying out combat operations. This is why they would most certainly be moved into the theater, to augment Taiwanese air power, given that our closest base, as the RAND study showed is 450 or so nautical miles away.

Gepap, why the hell do you think they would bother using carriers to maintain air superiority over Taiwan? Could it be to protect those very airfields and allow a buildup of forces to take place maybe?

As for the notion of a sea blockade on China that Patty desribes - yeah right. China is the world's producer. Yeah. watch prices of everything in Walmart soar upward, then tell people that its all worth it to keep Taiwan free....The Global economy is such that everyone else, including us, would suffer from any attempt to cut China out of the world economy, specially given they have the piggy bank most everyone else needs. This all assume we are talking about something going on soon, and not in ten years when who knows what the economic balance will be.

Yeah, because we are totally going to just let the Chinese conduct buisness as usual while we are in open warfare

For one, the removal of just he US as a consumer of Chinese goods will devestate the Chinese economy all by itself. Since we can pretty much be assured that Japan/Australia/most of Western Europe will at the very least shun China for open aggressive warfare against a peaceful democracy, we don't really need to worry about blockading them, their goods have no where to go.

Just how long do you think China can function at a basic level without ME oil? Food imports? Screw attacking the mainland, we just need to defend Taiwan and let the Chinese populous wither on vine for a month or two.

Oh, and as KH asked about in another thread, a war with China gives us an instant ability to write off most of out debt held by the Chinese without any hit to our credit. Nobody expects a nation attacked by another to honor the debt owed them. I bet a few countries will openly throw in against China just so they can do the same. China is gutted before the fist missile is fired.

Analysis by Dr.War Nerd:

Nothing against you Saras, but the article is retarded. I hope that was an Apirl Fools joke. I am not sure why the guy thinks any such weapon he is talking about exists, but the idea that the chinese have found a way to use a ballistic missile for anti ship purposes is ludacris. They can barely get their ICBMs to hit stationary targets the size of cities, how the hell are they planning on not only locating but then keeping targeting data up to date in real time while reliably communicating with the missile. And remember, the missile has to be doing everything via inertial guidance, the Chinese do not have GPS.

Also, I suggest the WarNerd remain a little more up to date on anti missile tech, he could start by reading up on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile_Launcher_3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM-3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-162_ESSM

[Saras]

Just stirring up things a bit, is all

I can't in my mind imagine how the anyone would be able to hit a ship with an ICBM...

[GePap]

Gepap, why the hell do you think they would bother using carriers to maintain air superiority over Taiwan? Could it be to protect those very airfields and allow a buildup of forces to take place maybe?

No, it would be because doing so would block any Chinese attempt to invade the island, forcing the Chinese to end their campaign against Taiwan as too costly, and forcing them to the negotiating table.

Yeah, because we are totally going to just let the Chinese conduct buisnessas usual while we are in open warfare

Actually, unless we want to sink the overall world economy and attempt to cripple our banker, who incidently is probably the only country that would be able to buy the debt we would need to put out there to finance your little martial dreams, the US would probably need to minimize overall economic impact.

For one, the removal of just he US as a consumer of Chinese goods will devestate the Chinese economy all by itself. Since we can pretty much be assured that Japan/Australia/most of Western Europe will at the very least shun China for open aggressive warfare against a peaceful democracy, we don't really need to worry about blockading them, their goods have no where to go.

Its cute that you think that disdain over aggressive actions will trump economic survival - you also seem to ignore the fact that China is not only a huge exporter, but a massive importer of finished good and raw materials, something that many countries, like Australia, count on.

Just how long do you think China can function at a basic level without ME oil? Food imports? Screw attacking the mainland, we just need to defend Taiwan and let the Chinese populous wither on vine for a month or two.

China is food self-sufficient. As foir oil, such a war woiuld play havoc with oil markets, though they could probably et a lot of their needs from the Russians in a pinch. And again, who is going to replace Chiense production when Best Buy runs out of TV's to sell?

Oh, and as KH asked about in another thread, a war with China gives us an instant ability to write off most of out debt held by the Chinese without any hit to our credit. Nobody expects a nation attacked by another to honor the debt owed them. I bet a few countries will openly throw in against China just so they can do the same. China is gutted before the fist missile is fired.

Bull****. We write off our debt and the dollar sinks. China still has a savings rate higher than ours, so if we continue to renage on ours debts to them, they just never have to seek dollar again, and you can start seeing the end of the US dollar as the global currency, because for all our gloating, the move of economic power to Asia is not something a single war would end.

More importantly, a general blockade is not a limited act of war. It is a general act of war- which would give China every right to escalate way up to destroy such a blockade, including with the use of tactical nukes and other unconventional means. You and others keep claiming a conflict over Taiwan wouldn'tescalate, then like an idiot propose an act that is the very essence of military escalation.

[Serb]

I regret they gonna stop further production of F-22, 'cause F-22 is a shining piece of over-priced and overrated crap - FACT!

Why is Sukhoi doing their best to copy it, then?

Right Sherlock, Su-47 and F-22 are twin brothers.

[KrazyHorse]

Bull****. We write off our debt and the dollar sinks

Care to explain the reasoning behind that?

[Grandpa Troll]

Right Sherlock, Su-47 and F-22 are twin brothers.

[KrazyHorse]

Just stirring up things a bit, is all

I can't in my mind imagine how the anyone would be able to hit a ship with an ICBM...

It's likely not completely ballistic. There will be terminal guidance (either aerodynamic or powered). The important part is the trajectory (both speed and angle of approach) compared with the trajectory of cruise missiles (much faster and from above rather than from the side).

Also, this is not technically an ICBM. Its range is too low for that. Medium-range BM, I believe, is the correct term.

The final velocity in the descent phase would likely be mach 5 or so and the angle of approach inclined >60 degrees from horizontal. These are rough estimates from the info given in the article. Further details about the missile's lift capabilities would provide a better estimate of its trajectory (or more properly its range of available trajectories given a fixed distance from launch to target).

[Serb]

I suggest you take a look at the Chinese aircraft inventory. I give them a 50/50 chance of penetrating the Taiwanese defenses themselves, no chance of penetrating them backed up with US (and lets not be naive, most of the Western world's) support.

Oh yeah




"... it was like clubbing baby seals". Classic -

[Asher]

The Su-47 is clearly a ripoff of the F-22, except the Russians put the wings on backwards.

[KrazyHorse]

What do you expect from a bunch of ignorant peons?

[Serb]

0/1000 to both of you. Heard that crap before many times.
You guys need to be more creative in your trolls.

[Asher]

0/1000 to both of you. Heard that crap before many times.

That's cause it's true.

BTW:

Boeing Unveils F-15 "Silent Eagle" Details

Another thorn in the F-22 and F-35 side

Boeing recently released information on a new variant of the F-15 family, the F-15SE "Silent Eagle", which features stealth technologies and upgraded avionics. It would compete directly with F-22 and F-35 for international sales.

"The F-15 Silent Eagle is designed to meet our international customers' anticipated need for cost-effective stealth technologies, as well as for large and diverse weapons payloads," said Mark Bass, F-15 Program vice president for Boeing. "The innovative Silent Eagle is a balanced, affordable approach designed to meet future survivability needs."

Besides South Korea, target customers for the F-15SE program include Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Japan and Israel, he added.

Similar to full stealth fighters, the F-15SE will have different roles and configurations in the opening phase of an air campaign and in the sustainment phase, after air superiority is achieved. Flying with full 'RCS Reduction Package' the F-15SE will be able to carry Air-to-Air (AIM-9 and AIM-120) missiles and air-to-ground munitions to include JDAM and SDB. The aircraft could be configured to F-15SE Multirole Capable aircraft in approximately two hours, providing long range weapon capability, employing missiles such as the SLAM-ER and Harpoon Block II missiles or any other type of weapon qualified for the Strike eagle. In this configuration the aircraft will retain a total fuel capacity of 34,700 lbs at a maximum takeoff gross weight of 81,000 lbs (carrying 29,500 lbs of payload).

According to Boeing estimates, utilizing the twin F110-GE-129 engines the Silent Eagle will be able to reach an approximate mission radius of 800 nautical miles (nm) on air/ground missions and 720 nm on combat air patrols (CAP), employing the RCS reduction kit. Baseline CFT equipped F-15SE can reach 1000 nm on ground attack and 900 nm on CAP. The Silent Eagle will be able to internally carry air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 and AIM-120 and air-to-ground weapons such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). The standard, external weapons load used on current versions of the F-15 is available with the traditional CFTs installed.
Survivability improvements include a BAES Digital Electronic Warfare System (DEWS) working in concert with the Raytheon Advanced Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar. The aircraft will be fitted with a network-enabled integrated sensor system, comprising a targeting pod, infrared search track (IRST) system, navigation pod, the AESA radar and threat warning ECM. Voice over data communications, employing datalink connectivity will enable the Silent Eagle to rely not only on on-board data, but share and receive sensor data and target location from external sources, assisting in the creation of full and updated situational awareness even in 'silent' modes of operation.

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch. The design, development, and test of this internal carriage system are available as a collaborative project with an international aerospace partner. Notionally, Boeing estimates the F-15SE’s cost, including airframe, spares and training, at $100 million each.

According to the Korea Times, the Silent Eagle will be Boeing's bid for South Korea's third phase F-X fighter jet acquisition program, to begin by 2012. Earlier, Seoul officials said the third phase program would focus on obtaining the so-called fifth-generation stealth fighters. The F-X aims to procure 120 high-end warplanes by 2020, and Boeing already won the previous two deals with its F-15K fighters.

[Q Classic]

A-10s are ****ing awesome. Airborne tanks.