Is this heaven? No, it's Iowa!

[Theben]

How then do you explain the very different approach? Gay people see it as essential to who they are because they chose to be gay, whereas deaf people it doesn't matter whatsoever, because it's something they have always had. Why do gay people resent those who try to give them therapy, while hearing impaired people seek whatever means they can to improve their hearing?

By that you'd have to admit that straight people chose to be straight. Tell me, at what point in your life did you decide your passion for women was greater than your passion for men?

And gays probably resent 'therapy' b/c you're saying there's something wrong with them.

It's crystal clear to me. How can you be proud of something that you haven't chosen? It's no different from white pride.

Black people didn't choose to be black, whites didn't choose to be white, Irish didn't choose to be Irish. Yet somehow they manage to be proud of these things. It's a difficult concept, I suppose.

So you deny that the curriculum up here is being revised by gay people for gay people?

Since the only thing necessary for that statement to be true is to have one gay professor alter his/her curriculum to a more 'gay-friendly' one, no. But I feel know you're exaggerating the issue.

Then why do we have to make sure we use inclusive language in classes? Why is it offensive to refer to mothers and fathers, husbands and wives? Why do we have to have a 'month for gay people'? Why do we have to ask whether or not every single historical figure we encounter was actually light in his loafers despite having 12 children of his own?

You really want to know why? Because parents with ideological axes to grind (left, right, and center) don't want their kids exposed to anything in the educational system they don't like. The administrations tends to be cowed by the parents. And the result is an extremely bland, inoffensive, and fact-devoid education. I know that doesn't answer your question directly; rather it's the underlying cause of changes in education like these (to answer your question directly, I'd say you're taking an exception and displaying it as a rule).

No one is required to sit in a church for 2000 class hours to get a degree. Until then, I don't want to hear the complaints about discrimination.

So you'd prefer that homosexuals abandon the church altogether?

[DinoDoc]

Black people didn't choose to be black,

Michael Jackson disagrees but I digress. Feel free to carry on.

[Ben Kenobi]

By that you'd have to admit that straight people chose to be straight. Tell me, at what point in your life did you decide your passion for women was greater than your passion for men?

Alyssano Milano. Had a huge crush on her when I was younger.

And gays probably resent 'therapy' b/c you're saying there's something wrong with them.

So the rationale behind therapy is, you suck, there's nothing you can do about it so you should just kill yourself now and be done with it?

Black people didn't choose to be black, whites didn't choose to be white, Irish didn't choose to be Irish. Yet somehow they manage to be proud of these things. It's a difficult concept, I suppose.

Yet we don't see white pride parades down the street every year? Why is this?

Since the only thing necessary for that statement to be true is to have one gay professor alter his/her curriculum to a more 'gay-friendly' one, no. But I feel know you're exaggerating the issue.

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=223d5fea-2e50-4b1d-9678-f37850ca50cb

You really want to know why? Because parents with ideological axes to grind (left, right, and center) don't want their kids exposed to anything in the educational system they don't like.

You make it sound like it is a bad thing. Parents have a responsibility to educate their children. They feel that their children are not being educated, that they are being taught to reject their way of life, and that the schools are actively working against what they are trying to teach their children.

The administrations tends to be cowed by the parents. And the result is an extremely bland, inoffensive, and fact-devoid education. I know that doesn't answer your question directly; rather it's the underlying cause of changes in education like these (to answer your question directly, I'd say you're taking an exception and displaying it as a rule).

Well, I got a real education after I left the public system, so I completely agree with you here. I think the only way to fix these problems is to allow parents to choose the school that their child attends. This way the schools themselves will be better able to provide an education by not having to make one size fits all.

So you'd prefer that homosexuals abandon the church altogether?

I was fortunate that a friend reached out to me. However, I understood that it was a two way commitment. You have to obey the church. I have no problem with people struggling with their own sins, we all do. However, if we want to be a part of the church, then we need to be willing to follow her teachings to the best of our ability.

I would rather that everyone come on Sunday regardless of how many years they have been away and be welcomed again as brothers and sisters in Christ. I want everyone who has been hurt and driven away by the ill comments of others, to return so we can love them as they ought to be loved. I won't lie to you Theban, that today especially weighs on me, and I wish I could bring everyone in that I care about.

[Theben]

I feel like I'm fighting the Hydra without a firebrand. Cut off one lie, two spring up in its place. I'm gonna use the Kuciwalker defence for awhile.

[MrFun]

The point is the comparison between the two, and thanks for confirming that it is a choice. You don't want therapy, because you want to be gay. Great. Hearing impaired people who don't have a choice, see it differently. Therapy, even if it's not helpful is understood to be in our best interests simply because it opens up possibilities that we may eventually be able to hear properly.

The level of your stupidity is so incredible - it shoots up and beyond the stratosphere.

First, the fact that the great majority of gays reject the quckery-based "therapy" does not mean that sexual orientation is a choice. It means that majority of gays know that such "therapies" are false and are based on homopohobia and misinformation. We choose to accept for who we are - that does not mean we chose our sexual orientation. On other side of coin, denying that oneself is gay does not change his sexual orientation - he is still a gay man living the "life" of a "straight" man.

[chequita guevara]

The difference between homosexuality and deafness is that deafness is a defect. Furthermore, deafness often IS chosen, because it is the result of listening to music too loudly or working someplace with very loud noises. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is innate in some people, and the evidence is now strongly pointing to a genetic cause.

[Kuciwalker]

I feel like I'm fighting the Hydra without a firebrand. Cut off one lie, two spring up in its place. I'm gonna use the Kuciwalker defence for awhile.

[Ben Kenobi]

First, the fact that the great majority of gays reject the quckery-based "therapy" does not mean that sexual orientation is a choice.

I am simply remarking about the difference in attitudes. You don't want to change. You are making the choice to be gay. I don't have a choice, but if given the opportunity I would take it, if the therapy were in existance.

It means that majority of gays know that such "therapies" are false and are based on homopohobia and misinformation.

How so? Are you implying that therapies designed to help hearing impaired people are based on able-ism and hatred of hearing impaired people?

We choose to accept for who we are - that does not mean we chose our sexual orientation. On other side of coin, denying that oneself is gay does not change his sexual orientation - he is still a gay man living the "life" of a "straight" man.

What about the life of a man who gets married and has children. Could we not say that he was really a straight man who was denying that he was straight? I don't understand why your understanding of sexual orientation is like a switch that flips one way only.

[MrFun]

I am simply remarking about the difference in attitudes. You don't want to change. You are making the choice to be gay. I don't have a choice, but if given the opportunity I would take it, if the therapy were in existance.

How so? Are you implying that therapies designed to help hearing impaired people are based on able-ism and hatred of hearing impaired people?

What about the life of a man who gets married and has children. Could we not say that he was really a straight man who was denying that he was straight? I don't understand why your understanding of sexual orientation is like a switch that flips one way only.

I am NOT ABLE to change my sexual orientation, just as you're unable to change yours.

You draw such ridiculous wrong conclusions from other people's arguments either out of unbelievable sheer stupidity or out of deliberate tactics of distortion. How the **** can you say that because "therapies" offered to gays to "change" their sexual orientation are fake and hate-motivated must mean the same thing for deaf people with real therapy offered for them? Seriously!

Straight people have NO REASON to deny their sexual orientation because they grow up in a heterosexist society where people of their sexual orientation makes up around 90 percent of world population. Straight people do not face discriminate in society because of their sexual orientation. They are assumed, indeed, PRESSURED to marry someone of opposite gender - no rights to marriage denied there. This is why we see denial of sexual orientation identity among gay people but not among straight people.

[chequita guevara]

Fun, you have to understand that in Ben's defective mind, homosexuality is a choice. Apparently he believes that human sexuality is so malleable that if it were acceptable, more people would chose to be gay. We need to keep in mind that he's a young Earth creationist, so no amount of evidence is ever going to change his mind. He's defective, an inferior type of human. He should not be allowed to marry in order to avoid spreading his defective genes.

[Ben Kenobi]

I am NOT ABLE to change my sexual orientation, just as you're unable to change yours.

Then you reject Kinsey who says precisely the opposite.

You draw such ridiculous wrong conclusions from other people's arguments either out of unbelievable sheer stupidity or out of deliberate tactics of distortion. How the **** can you say that because "therapies" offered to gays to "change" their sexual orientation are fake and hate-motivated must mean the same thing for deaf people with real therapy offered for them? Seriously!

Why not, Mr. Fun? What's the difference between the two. I've heard both arguments given.

Straight people have NO REASON to deny their sexual orientation because they grow up in a heterosexist society where people of their sexual orientation makes up around 90 percent of world population.

So people only do things because they are reasonable? Suppose we take a younger boy about 12 or 13 who doesn't have much experience in anything. He's totally baffled and mystified, wants girls to pay attention to him, but doesn't have a clue how to go about doing so. Say some older man pays attention to him and treats him like a real person. Then that man takes advantage of him and asks him for sex.

Straight people do not face discriminate in society because of their sexual orientation.

Sure they do. What if they say they are waiting for marriage?

They are assumed, indeed, PRESSURED to marry someone of opposite gender - no rights to marriage denied there. This is why we see denial of sexual orientation identity among gay people but not among straight people.

I think it can work both ways. It's certainly less likely, simply because of the numbers. If there are only 2 percent of people who are exclusively gay, that says nothing about those who swing back and forth according to their whims.

People aren't reasonable, Mr. Fun, least of all in this realm.

[Kidlicious]

Ben, what do you know about sex anyway?

[Ben Kenobi]

We need to keep in mind that he's a young Earth creationist,

No, I'm not. I believe the universe is about 13 billion years old. I don't interpret '7 days' as literal, I interpret them as aeons. I'm not even sure I qualify as a creationist. I believe that God can use evolution for his own means. I believe in species diversification, but not in the actual transformation of one species into another. I believe there are a certain number of 'forms' from which all the animals are derived as some variation from these forms.

[chequita guevara]

Wow, that only took how many years of pounding in to your head? Probably nothing we said made a difference. Since the Catholic Church accepts evolution and the scientific age of the universe, you can now also.

Also, evolution never claimed one species transformed into another. An idiot to the end.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, that only took how many years of pounding in to your head?

I've always believed this. I believed it before I was a Christian and I believe in it now.

Probably nothing we said made a difference. Since the Catholic Church accepts evolution and the scientific age of the universe, you can now also.

I can tell you why that age, 13 billion years is inaccurate and how they derive that age...