Do you want kids?

[Saras]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5534806&postcount=16

'nuff said

[Alinestra Covelia]

You do realize that you have just made an excellent argument for never having sex right?

On further consideration, I have another response to this too.

I'd actually go so far as to say that social mores seem to treat people in much the same way about both. Sex and procreation have always been a perfectly natural impulse for people, but now society seems to view them more as requirements. If you're not having sex, something's wrong and you should feel very ashamed of yourself. Likewise, if you're not having kids, then you're selfish and ungenerous and likewise should feel as though something's wrong.

I disagree.

Personally, I happen to enjoy sex a lot and I think it's something that's inherently funny and comical to discuss as well. (You may not believe this based on my previous posts, but it's true!)

Personally, I happen to feel childbearing is overrated and currently causes more problems than it solves, both in terms of individual lives and the attendant parenting problems, and in terms of global trends and the failure of resources to keep pace with exponential population growth. I may well be wrong about this, and it's a fair target for discussion.

But more importantly, I don't think it's something for me - and unlike the prior paragraph, that's something nobody else can decide except for me, being a purely personal choice with purely personal consequences.

These viewpoints on sex on one hand and reproduction on the other are entirely subjective and my own choice. I don't have anything against people who have kids, but I draw the line at people looking down on me because I don't want to. Why do you care? You've got kids. If it makes you feel any better, have a few more and pretend they're mine.

Likewise, I think society - especially Western society - needs to ease up on the assumption that a person who chooses to be chaste or celibate automatically has something wrong with them. Many people choose for their own reasons to forego a sex life, whether it's because of personal outlook or circumstantial factors or limitations, and that's perfectly fine too. It's not something I would do, but it's completely irrelevant to me if somebody else chooses to. Likewise my viewpoint, positive or not, is irrelevant to them.

It would probably make life a lot less complicated too, come to think of it.

[Ben Kenobi]

In any case I think that because of self-destructive attitudes about children in western society we are as a civilization doomed. I am therefore strongly in favour of a technological state driven solution.

I belive that it is much easier to simply start cloning kids en masse in goverment controlled artificial wombs than to fix what is wrong with our culture. If this is what will happen then the baby bust will be nothing but the next industrial revolution, the west won't fall it will simply be the first to embrace transhumanism. Imagine a generation of beautifull strong intelligent children raised by the glorius State. Surley this and not a bunch of leftist hippies or backward right-wing fundies is the future of mankind.

My real fear is that luddite forces and religius freaks will slow the west on the path to this long enough for our civ to be overrun. The next civ which comes to face this hurdle probably won't be this foolish.

Interesting on how much we agree upon, and how we come to very different conclusions.

Hera, I see similar issues with western society and the only solution is going to be either fixing the culture or going by the wayside. Your vision of 'cloning artificial wombs', you are assuming that it will benefit society. I don't see that at all. It naturally brings about changes in itself that weaken society even further.

First off, why would you expect state control to produce more and better children? The best folks won't want to participate because they won't need state help with reproduction. It would only work, if and only if it were coercive. You'd have to have everyone submit a sample to obtain a 'reproduction certificate', or face the confiscation of their children. I see this coming up and very soon.

Secondly, you would have the state responsible for raising children, which the only really efficient method of doing so will be through the orphanages. How are you going to afford such an enormous expense? Confiscatory taxation and/or slavery. If the state is in charge of raising children, why wouldn't the state also force them to work for their benefit? That is a system that is self-sustaining, but very weak.

The only real solution that I see Hera, is to try to fix the culture. Otherwise, the West is doomed, and we will be replaced by those 'right wing lunatics' who actually raise their own children and look after them.

[Lefty Scaevola]

CABRITO AL PASTOR (BROILED KIDS)

Yield: 8 Servings

2 Kids [baby goats], 6 1/2 to
-8 1/2 lbs each
3 tb Salt
1 c Mild vinegar


For the garnish:
2 c Guacamole (recipe
-separately)
3 tb White onion, chopped
1 c Tomato, finely chopped
3 tb Cilantro, finely chopped
3 tb Chiles serranos, finely
-chopped
1 Recipe Frijoles de Olla,
-mashed (recipe separately)
1 1/2 c Mozzarella OR Monterey Jack
-cheese, freshly grated
16 Totopos (crisply fried
-tortilla wedges)


For the kid:
Put kids in a large stockpot, and cover with water. Add salt and vinegar. Set aside for 2 hours. Meanwhile, build a pile of mesquite
wood on the ground, and burn down to white coals.
Remove kids from water and thread on spits.
Arrange over the hot coals, and roast for 2 to 3 hours, depending on the kids' weight, basting occasionally with a little salted water.

Turn spits continuously so that the meat cooks evenly, or use a rotisserie. Add more white coals if necessary.

To serve, cut kid in pieces, and place on plates. Garnish with guacamole, onion, tomato, cilatro, and chiles.

Serve withj Frijoles de Olla sprinkled with cheese, totopos, and Pico de Gallo sauce. The kid may be shredded and used in fried tacos.

Makes 8 servings.

[-Jrabbit]

Sounds tasty. I guess I do want more kids!!

[ZEE]

I made a promise to myself long ago to never put a child through the misery of dealing with the mental disease that i carry though my bloodline. It is not easy for me, as there are several girls i know at work that would "greatly enjoy" my company, but i will never take the risk.

If this is the one thing i must do to help the human race defeat this disease then i will do that.

[Lul Thyme]

Personally, I happen to feel childbearing is overrated and currently causes more problems than it solves, both in terms of individual lives and the attendant parenting problems, and in terms of global trends and the failure of resources to keep pace with exponential population growth.

Some may feel this is nitpicking, but I feel it's important to point out.
Population is not growing exponentially. Far from it.
The relative growth rate has been falling since its peak in 1963. In other words, growth has been sub-exponential for over 45 years...

Most estimates predict an absolute peak around 2050 with a following decrease.

Nevertheless, resource consumption and related issues are and will remain problems. For example, many European nations have essentially stable or even decreasing populations yet resource consumption is still increasing rapidly, following the per capita increase. I'm simply saying that looking at the resource problem simply for a population angle is missing the point.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Thanks for the correction. I'll take that into consideration in future

[Riesstiu IV]

I want kids... for my sweatshop in Laos.

[Jon Miller]

I made a promise to myself long ago to never put a child through the misery of dealing with the mental disease that i carry though my bloodline. It is not easy for me, as there are several girls i know at work that would "greatly enjoy" my company, but i will never take the risk.

If this is the one thing i must do to help the human race defeat this disease then i will do that.

Why not just use a condom?

JM

[ZEE]

Why not just use a condom?

JM

i dont know. Ive made up my mind, shall stick by my decision, and am not going to take any chances.

If the rest of the world was as courteous as i am being to the human genetic line then the world would be a better place.

[Kidlicious]

i dont know. Ive made up my mind, shall stick by my decision, and am not going to take any chances.

If the rest of the world was as courteous as i am being to the human genetic line then the world would be a better place.

If a woman is going to date you it's probably because of your mental illness. If you don't have sex with her she'll probably just have sex with someone else with a similar illness.

[ZEE]

sad isnt it

[Kidlicious]

sad isnt it

Not for you. It means you can have sex.

[ZEE]

LOL sure. Regardless if half the worlds population was Schizo (and they probably are anyway) i am a carrier and it will die with me. If it makes no difference to the overall percentage of carriers and sufferers 30/50/or 100 years from now i will still do it for one person that i know that WOULD have it.

My child.