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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
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Which is a pretty extreme assumption, don't you think? -
The link looks at the overall bailouts, not just porkulus.The link says that it's the largest, not second largest.
I already said that's assuming all bailouts have a return of 0. Which isn't going to be the case, but we aren't done with the bailouts yet.My guess is that Ben doesn't realize some combination of the following easily available facts: a.) a third of stimulus are tax cuts b.) the 2001 Bush tax cuts were about twice the size of the stimulus c.) wars have extremely large medical costs associated with them d.) we're going to be in Iraq for another couple years.
As for the Bush tax cuts, they are different. It's not an outlay by the federal government to cut taxes, you are reducing revenues not spending. It's comparing apples to oranges.
As for the Iraq War, it's up there, but the costs are going down not up. Porkulus just keeps piling on.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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I agree, which is why I didn't cite that number instead of the bill for Porkulus. Porkulus is burning money that you will never see again, rather then loans.Which is a pretty extreme assumption, don't you think?
The other thing is that as a proportion to the second world war, in 1944, where it hit 38 percent of the GDP, all the bailouts so far amount to only 33 percent. Another way of looking at things is that Porkulus alone is about 5 percent of GDP, which is actually less then the New Deal at about 7 percent of the 1933 GDP.
So as a percentage of the economy, it's not quite as bad as the New Deal, but still, Porkulus alone is probably the third biggest outlay as a proportion of the economy.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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Jesus Christ Almighty, stop with that ridiculous bull**** "porkulus".Comment
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I haven't even done the pictures yet of Senatus Porkulus Maximus.
Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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rah, Ming - can we have "porkulus" added to the naughty words filter please?
Senator ******** Maximus:
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The link looks at the overall bailouts, not just porkulus.
I know. That was my point to Drake.
I already said that's assuming all bailouts have a return of 0. Which isn't going to be the case, but we aren't done with the bailouts yet.
I wasn't talking about including the credit bailouts. You weren't either. Stop being disingenuous with your accounting.
As for the Bush tax cuts, they are different. It's not an outlay by the federal government to cut taxes, you are reducing revenues not spending. It's comparing apples to oranges.
That was my point in a.). Either you exclude tax cuts, and the expenditures are just over $500 billion - which is beaten by, say, TARP, or you include tax cuts, and the bill is dwarfed by the 2001 tax cuts. In either case, it's beaten by Iraq if you include medical costs or the full length of the war.
As for the Iraq War, it's up there, but the costs are going down not up. Porkulus just keeps piling on.
I don't know where to begin.
Last edited by Ramo; February 11, 2009, 19:22."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I haven't seen the final bill and the breakdown, as it's been changing. Do you have a source with the breakdown of Porkulus?Either you exclude tax cuts, and the expenditures are just over $500 billion, or you include tax cuts, and the bill is dwarfed by the 2001 tax cuts.
I'd be more then willing to exclude all the tax cuts from Porkulus as they are not really expenditures.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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See Ben, this is the issue. You clearly have no idea what the legislation is, yet are parroting the talking points that less informed members of the right wing blogosphere use down to the lame nickname for the stimulus.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Never mind the pork****, where's the beef****?Comment
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Ramo, do you have a source for that 285 billion in tax cuts?
Your source says nothing about the breakdown.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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It does if you read it.
Baucus said about 35 percent of the plan would be set aside for tax cuts and the remainder would be government spending."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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That was my point to Drake.
Why would you feel the need to inform me of a point that I already addressed in this very thread?Comment
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Because you were confused. Ben was talking about the stimulus, specifically, not credit bailout. Why he said second largest, rather than largest."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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