CA ceases disability payments

[Lefty Scaevola]

Not only did it slash taxes but at the same time they changed the rules requiring a 2/3rds majority to cut any spending and/or to raise taxes. You can always get 1/3rd to oppose anything so the result is complete dysfunction and gridlock on every issue. Of course that was the stated goal of the Howard Jarvis Center (a right wing group big here in California) to make government dysfunctional.

And then there is Texas, with a constitution originating just after civil war reconstrution, designed to severely limit state governement and spending (such as flatly prohibiting an income tax), with multiple checks and balances, and extra legislative procedures to stop legislation, especially appropriations and tax legislation, and it gets along immensely better in bugeting than Caifornia does.

[Deity Dude]

This all goes back to the "reform" right wingers pushed with prop 13. Not only did it slash taxes but at the same time they changed the rules requiring a 2/3rds majority to cut any spending and/or to raise taxes. You can always get 1/3rd to oppose anything so the result is complete dysfunction and gridlock on every issue. Of course that was the stated goal of the Howard Jarvis Center (a right wing group big here in California) to make government dysfunctional.

Without knowing any details, I would intuitively think that California's problem isn't too few taxes but too much government.

[Supr49er]

And then there is Texas, with a constitution originating just after civil war reconstrution, designed to severely limit state governement and spending (such as flatly prohibiting an income tax), with multiple checks and balances, and extra legislative procedures to stop legislation, especially appropriations and tax legislation, and it gets along immensely better in bugeting than Caifornia does.

Give us your Constitution.

[chequita guevara]

Texas is in debt up to its eyeballs.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Every State bond issuance in Texas requires a constituional amendment (and every amendment requires a state ballot issue, in addition to supermajorities in the legislature). Every subordinate juridiction bond inssuance require either a constituional amendment or a local ballot issue, depending on the type of jurisdiction. The politicians cannot borrow a dime without the consent of the governed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Without knowing any details, I would intuitively think that California's problem isn't too few taxes but too much government.

They've already suspended tax returns as well. The good thing about this is that it removes the only benefit behind allowing withholding and getting a big cheque with your taxes.

Now, people are going to claim as little as possible until the end of the year when they have to pay. More work, but you'll be much better off for it.

[Ben Kenobi]

I see 23 billion dollars in state debt for a population about 2/3rds of Canada.

California has 130 billion in debt.

Still they are models of fiscal restraint compared to Canada. We have 600 billion dollars in debt for 30 milllion people.

I don't see why CA is having budget troubles. If we can bring in balanced budgets up here on 600 billion of debt (about 5x CA debt levels), then CA should be able to do the same.

[DinoDoc]

This all goes back to the "reform" right wingers pushed with prop 13.

One might point the finger at your stupid prop sytem itself where people vote on things without any real care on how to pay for the projects they vote for.

[Supr49er]

One might point the finger at your stupid prop sytem itself where people vote on things without any real care on how to pay for the projects they vote for.

This nails it. Lots of $$$ voted in without the Constitutional 2/3 vote restraints.
And some of the propositions are constitutional amendments.

[Arrian]

When CT was pondering whether to have a Consitutional Convention, I kept thinking about CA's prop system. The main thing that the people pushing the CC wanted was to amend our consitution to allow for CA-style props. Yeah, look how well that works.

Not that I'm holding out my state as a shining example of good governance, mind you.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

I see 23 billion dollars in state debt for a population about 2/3rds of Canada.

California has 130 billion in debt.

Still they are models of fiscal restraint compared to Canada. We have 600 billion dollars in debt for 30 milllion people.

I don't see why CA is having budget troubles. If we can bring in balanced budgets up here on 600 billion of debt (about 5x CA debt levels), then CA should be able to do the same.

It's like Cruelty and I said, the 2/3rds rule makes everything dysfunctional. You can always get 1/3 to oppose any spending cut just like you can always get 1/3 to oppose and tax increase. The net result is crisis after crisis while the state hasn't completed a budget on time in 28 years which is exactly when the 2/3rds rule was adopted.

[Dinner]

When CT was pondering whether to have a Consitutional Convention, I kept thinking about CA's prop system. The main thing that the people pushing the CC wanted was to amend our consitution to allow for CA-style props. Yeah, look how well that works.

Sometimes the prop system works but a lot of the time it doesn't. Everyone always votes to decrease their taxes but at the same time they vote to require massive spending increases. These people are completely out to lunch. Where do they think the money will come from?

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think underspending is CAs problem. It seems to me more one of management.