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Thank you Bush

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  • I wouldn't reconsider my vote for Barack Hussein Obama, in other words, and when he takes the oath, I hope to have a ringside seat. ... But, on the last day of his presidency, I want to say why I still do not wish that Al Gore had beaten George W. Bush in 2000 or that John Kerry had emerged the victor in 2004.

    The answer, I am reasonably certain, is that it is the events of Sept. 11, 2001, that explain the transformation of George Bush from a rather lazy small-government conservative into an interventionist, in almost every sense, politician. ... We are never invited to ask ourselves what would have happened if the Democrats had been in power that fall. But it might be worth speculating for a second. The Effective Death Penalty and Anti-Terrorism Act, rushed through both Houses by Bill Clinton after the relative pin ***** of the Oklahoma City bombing, was correctly described by the American Civil Liberties Union as the worst possible setback for the cause of citizens' rights. Given that precedent and multiplying it for the sake of proportion, I think we can be pretty sure that wiretapping and water-boarding would have become household words, perhaps even more quickly than they did, and that we might even have heard a few more liberal defenses of the practice. I don't know if Gore-Lieberman would have thought of using Guantanamo Bay, but that, of course, raises the interesting question—now to be faced by a new administration—of where exactly you do keep such actually or potentially dangerous customers, especially since you are not supposed to "rendition" them. There would have been a nasty prison somewhere or a lot of prisoners un-taken on the battlefield, you can depend on that.

    We might have avoided the Iraq war, even though both Bill Clinton and Al Gore had repeatedly and publicly said that another and conclusive round with Saddam Hussein was, given his flagrant defiance of all the relevant U.N. resolutions, unavoidably in our future. And the inconvenient downside to avoiding the Iraq intervention is that a choke point of the world economy would still be controlled by a psychopathic crime family that kept a staff of WMD experts on hand and that paid for jihadist suicide bombers around the region. In his farewell interviews, President Bush hasn't been able to find much to say for himself on this point, but I think it's a certainty that historians will not conclude that the removal of Saddam Hussein was something that the international community ought to have postponed any further. (Indeed, if there is a disgrace, it is that previous administrations left the responsibility undischarged.)

    The obvious failures—in particular the increasing arrogance and insanity of the dictatorships of Iran and North Korea—are at least failures in their own terms: failure to live up to the original rhetoric and failure to mesh human rights imperatives with geo-strategic and security ones. Again, it's not clear to me how any alternative administration would have behaved. And the collapse of our financial system has its roots in a long-ago attempt, not disgraceful in and of itself, to put home ownership within reach even of the least affluent. So the old question "compared to what?" does not allow too much glibness.


    Yes, yes, I was on the downtown streets of Washington bright and early, mingling with the bright-eyed and the wide-eyed. Yes, by all means I was there...


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    • Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut View Post
      Outgoing US President George Bush telephoned President Shimon Peres bidding him farewell on the occasion of the end of Bush's term as president Tuesday.


      Peres said to Bush, "If the world had acted against Hitler the way you acted against Saddam Hussein, the lives of millions would have been saved." The president added, "You made a historic contribution to the entire world and to the Jewish people in particular. We will treasure this forever and will never forget it."


      Outgoing US President George Bush telephoned President Shimon Peres bidding him farewell on the occasion of the end of Bush's term as president Tuesday. Peres said to Bush, "If the world had acted against Hitler the way you acted against Saddam


      Or:

      "If the world had acted against Hitler the way you acted against Saddam Hussein, the state of Israel would never have been created."

      Damn, we missed a trick there...
      Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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      • Originally posted by MOBIUS View Post
        Or:

        "If the world had acted against Hitler the way you acted against Saddam Hussein, the state of Israel would never have been created."

        Damn, we missed a trick there...
        Nah, the Jews would have still owned the banks and the media and gotten what they wanted regardless. [/troll]
        Unbelievable!

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        • "If the world had acted against Hitler the way you acted against Saddam Hussein, the state of Israel would never have been created."


          I think they'd prefer to have the 6 million people back.

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          • Win, win.
            Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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            • Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut View Post
              I can't imagine going through life as bitter and angry as some of you.
              I could fill you in. Might take time and alcohol, but we could take a stab at it. And if the education did not work, nothing lost anyhow.

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              • Originally posted by Blaupanzer View Post
                Have you actually met Krazy Horse? He is very smart about some things, perhaps not so knowledgable about others.

                Kerry is genuinely a man of honor. This and confusing Tet for Christmas cost him his credibility. He believed the American voter would not accept nonsense. He underestimated their sense of humor ("for it, before I was against it") and their willingness to believe politicians lie (his own defense of his medals from Nam).
                Kitty is a smart motha fukka.

                And Kerry is a little worm. My uncle got a Navy Cross unlike that little New England worm.

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                • I think I drink enough already. It makes me less bitter and angry.

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                  • Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut View Post
                    Bush should get credit not for making tough decisions, but for having the courage and sens of duty to live up to the responsibilities stemming from those decisions when so many others were unwilling to do so. The entire Washington D.C. foreign policy establishment was complicit in starting the Iraq War, but Bush was almost alone by the end in his efforts to do the right thing and leave behind a stable Iraq with a realistic chance at a democratic and prosperous future.

                    Fukk that. Dine and ditch.

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                    • Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut View Post
                      I think I drink enough already. It makes me less bitter and angry.

                      It would be an intellectual exercise. Not to get you down.

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                      • Fukk that. Dine and ditch.


                        I'm not saying I agree; I'm with you on that. I'm just saying that sticking around was the moral thing to do and usually hippy libs are all about doing the moral thing. They'd show Bush some respect for doing the right thing if they weren't massive hypocrites.

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                        • Bush bailout has turned me againt the moron forever. And Iraq is a cluster****. Even Rummy knew that.

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                          • Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut View Post
                            Fukk that. Dine and ditch.


                            I'm not saying I agree; I'm with you on that. I'm just saying that sticking around was the moral thing to do and usually hippy libs are all about doing the moral thing.
                            morall/stupid versus evil/smart?

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                            • Yes. I'm all for evil/smart

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                              • I think Bush's Iraq stick it out was more around not wanting to admit a false move than about moral stance.

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