I really, really hate smokers

[Sirotnikov]

NYE, regarding gay monogamy - I have recently read an Israeli thread on a half related issue.
It talked about gay people's blood donations, and the way they are treated in Israel.

Eventually the issue of gay people's monogamy came up, and was actually admitted as a problem by representatives of the GLBT organizations in Israel, who agreed it is low, especially among younger gay people. I also read that this was not unique to Israel.

[Ben Kenobi]

I asked 'what statistics?'

Well I am sorry. I missed your earlier reply.

I don't know if I care for the answer anymore, Ben. At a certain point I have to realise that you are not going to change your opinions on the subject no matter what people say to you. I have argued with you. Ming has. Many other people have put the case to you regarding rights and reasonable expectations of homosexuals.

I don't see what that has to do with this issue at all. People have rights that have nothing to do with who they sleep with and why.

The only thing I argue is that marriage is not one of them. This is not an issue of "gay people do not deserve human rights", but rather, "what is a human right, and why?"

I'd appreciate it if you understood that is what I am saying. The disagreement isn't over whether gay people are deserving, etc, but it's over what is a right? It's a much more fundamental disagreement.

To me the issue of whether gay people have 15 partners or 1 is irrelevant to the rights issue.

You haven't listened, haven't modified your position one, sinlge jot as far as I can tell. I can tell, because you continue to drop bombs like that quoted, but with a smile on your face (as someone else pointed out).

You think that makes me happy? I find it sad.

jrabbit is usually a fairly reasonable sort of fellow. Do you wonder why he feels as he does? Do you wonder why more and more people are beginning to feel like he does? I guess it is not reasonable to expect you to modify your opinions on the subject based on the years of threads and debates on the topic.

So I'm not welcome here because I disagree on this one issue? Discourse to me doesn't rely on one person being right and the other person being wrong, or the whole thesis/antithesis/synthesis.

I didn't take you for a Hegelian, and that rather surprises me, NYE.

I think people can discuss an issue come to opposite conclusions, and still have a productive discussion, in that the issue is better understood.

I don't think less of anybody that they disagree with me, and I only expect that the same courtesy be applied.

Now, that being said, this is not what the thread was about. I will send you a pm if you are really interested in this question.

[Sirotnikov]

I commended him for his decision. If you read over the thread, I said it was a good thing that he chose to do so, over being more promiscuous.

I'm not sure it's really your place to commend him for life style choices.

I haven't read the original, but what you claim to have said comes off extremely condescending and I understand how a person like Asher would get in a fit over this, being limited in response by the site's rules.

It doesn't matter that monogamy is indeed less frequent among gays, and it doesn't matter you really do think Asher's monogamy is good. The way you say it, and the fact is is coming from you, makes it sound like you are commending him for 'not raping all those small innocent children'.


I do think Asher is eventually wrong.
He dishes out worse stuff - direct or subtle, and should be able to control himself.


Also this site's moderation has indeed been free-speech tolerant, even for extreme views. There was a really oddball Russian poster recently that addressed me in Russian and frankly accused me of evil Jew world domination plans. He did so very politely and without specifically libeling me, and there was no moderator action.

I was furious at first. This is the first time I meet such flagrant soul-deep anti-semitic conviction. But later I came to my senses. He wasn't a hateful person. Simply very deeply misinformed. He has done me no wrong, and I had to accept he will continue to have his opinions. He can't be banned for them, as long as he doesn't threaten me.

[notyoueither]

His question was whether I would accept the claim of the Muslim that he should have been informed about the pig gelatin.

I think he would have a claim there, as would a vegetarian who had to do the same with animal products.

And you are completely out in left field as regards to employer obligations and employee rights.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it, but you are in la la land.

[notyoueither]

I commended him for his decision. If you read over the thread, I said it was a good thing that he chose to do so, over being more promiscuous.

He was offended that I said the average gay partnership has many more partners then straight folks do, committed over equal periods. That says absolutely nothing about Asher and his current situation.



I respect the fact that you choose to make it your personal mission to point out my errors and to hold me to the task. I'm reminded of Ferris Bueller.

You'd be happier if you spent more time worrying about yourself then me.



That is true. I could have chosen to ignore the whole thing as I have many, many times in the past. Instead I figured that life is too short, and I ought to be treated the same way in which I treat others. I don't think that name calling and insisting that I am a liar ought to be tolerated, and if the Polytubbies find it offensive that I stand up for myself, then so be it.



When you are nitpicking, you should expect that your peripheral complaints have nothing to do with the substance of the argument.



Yet I coverted to Christianity and Catholicism.

Instead of being frusterated you should be thinking, how can I get through to Ben Kenobi?



That's fine. I consider you to be a friend of mine. I'm sorry you find me frusterating and difficult, but you must understand what it has cost me in my own life to take the course I have chosen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to change based on the arguments presented here.

Shi Huangdi, and a few others who still post here have had a huge effect on me and my life, because they were able to get through to me and convince me that the path I was on was the wrong one. Shi asked me if I was fulfilled when I attended a Catholic church.

I'm not an ogre, JRabbit. If you want to get to me, I suggest trying a bit of honey. I'm usually very amenable to kindness and compassion.

I've been kind and compassionate, Ben, but that well is only so deep.

You said

2. Gay people's concept of monogamy is one at a time. The statistics have shown that 'committed' partners (ie, been together more then 3 months), have on average about 10 partners in a year.

I asked 'what statistics?'

No answer.

I don't know if I care for the answer anymore, Ben. At a certain point I have to realise that you are not going to change your opinions on the subject no matter what people say to you. I have argued with you. Ming has. Many other people have put the case to you regarding rights and reasonable expectations of homosexuals.

You haven't listened, haven't modified your position one, single jot as far as I can tell. I can tell, because you continue to drop bombs like that quoted, but with a smile on your face (as someone else pointed out).

jrabbit is usually a fairly reasonable sort of fellow. Do you wonder why he feels as he does? Do you wonder why more and more people are beginning to feel like he does? I guess it is not reasonable to expect you to modify your opinions on the subject based on the years of threads and debates on the topic. Of course, it may not be reasonable for you to expect a welcome, or discussion from many here anymore either.

[Ben Kenobi]

Should employers have to make special allowances for Muslim pharmacists?

His question was whether I would accept the claim of the Muslim that he should have been informed about the pig gelatin.

I think he would have a claim there, as would a vegetarian who had to do the same with animal products.

[notyoueither]

You did not answer his question. You answered the inverse of it.

Should employers have to make special allowances for Muslim pharmacists?

[Ben Kenobi]

A lot of medical products are sold in gelatine capsules that are sometimes made from pigs which are unclean animals in Islam. Suppose you have a Muslim pharmacist arguing that if anybody expected her to handle that stuff, they should have specified that in the contract beforehand. Are you going to accept that claim? Why/why not?

This is actually a really salient point. I worked in a health food store, where some animal products were sold. My boss was very clear that anyone who was handling and working with them had to be comfortable doing so, given the fact that a significant number of his staff were vegetarians. It was his philosophy that if they weren't comfortable handling them, that their discomfort would be picked up by the customers, and that they wouldn't sell the products effectively.

I have no issues with halal/kosher foods. I'd be surprised if a pharmacy or any place that handled food would not ask the question in their interviews.

[Ben Kenobi]

I find it ironic and a bit pathetic that, after offending Asher as you did -- attacking his very lifestyle as a monogamous, committed homosexual

I commended him for his decision. If you read over the thread, I said it was a good thing that he chose to do so, over being more promiscuous.

He was offended that I said the average gay partnership has many more partners then straight folks do, committed over equal periods. That says absolutely nothing about Asher and his current situation.

But in a public forum that welcomes all, your seeming inability to coexist with -- let alone respect -- others is immature, mean-spirited, and -- some would say -- un-Christian.

I respect the fact that you choose to make it your personal mission to point out my errors and to hold me to the task. I'm reminded of Ferris Bueller.

You'd be happier if you spent more time worrying about yourself then me.

No one forced you to troll. It was a decision you made. And again, I have only accused you of being wrong. Never have I called you a liar. Never have I criticized you as a person, nor your belief system.

That is true. I could have chosen to ignore the whole thing as I have many, many times in the past. Instead I figured that life is too short, and I ought to be treated the same way in which I treat others. I don't think that name calling and insisting that I am a liar ought to be tolerated, and if the Polytubbies find it offensive that I stand up for myself, then so be it.

Admitting a mistake while declining to address other points of contention is something I find extremely annoying.

When you are nitpicking, you should expect that your peripheral complaints have nothing to do with the substance of the argument.

You're a frustrating person to argue with, Ben, mostly because you never, ever change your opinion, no matter the factual and logical evidence presented.

Yet I coverted to Christianity and Catholicism.

Instead of being frusterated you should be thinking, how can I get through to Ben Kenobi?

So for now, I've decided not to directly particpate in that. Nothing personal.

That's fine. I consider you to be a friend of mine. I'm sorry you find me frusterating and difficult, but you must understand what it has cost me in my own life to take the course I have chosen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to change based on the arguments presented here.

Shi Huangdi, and a few others who still post here have had a huge effect on me and my life, because they were able to get through to me and convince me that the path I was on was the wrong one. Shi asked me if I was fulfilled when I attended a Catholic church.

I'm not an ogre, JRabbit. If you want to get to me, I suggest trying a bit of honey. I'm usually very amenable to kindness and compassion.

[Monk]

Okay Ben, answer me this one:

A lot of medical products are sold in gelatine capsules that are sometimes made from pigs which are unclean animals in Islam. Suppose you have a Muslim pharmacist arguing that if anybody expected her to handle that stuff, they should have specified that in the contract beforehand. Are you going to accept that claim? Why/why not?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Nope, cigarettes aren't the way to go, especially not if he's trying to quit.

Sloww should take it to a punchbag or kickbag. Thirty minutes hard cardio, no gloves.

When he's done he'll be tired in a good way and ready for a beer.

[MOBIUS]

I think Sloww should stop being so stressed - perhaps if he had a cigarette or two to chill out...?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Maybe Texans sneak the dogcrap in so they can publicly beat it out? I wouldn't put it past them, they're pretty devious.

[Naked Gents Rut]

The Welsh love dogs. They even bred the world's smartest dog for sheep herding, allowing the average Welshman to enjoy more time ****ing sheep as opposed to chasing them.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Sloww, I'm trying to parse what you just said and it doesn't quite add up.

If the Welsh are too afraid of dogs, and I've lived in England for 11 years so I suspect you may be onto something, then how do they get dog crap inside them for Texans to beat out of them?