Marriage, Gays, and Atheists

[KrazyHorse]

Again, as I said: gays have not had to face, in the last couple of decades, the level of violence that blacks had to face up to the 60s.

But there are comparisons to be made.

[MrFun]

I remember in 1998 when there were some people who publicly celebrated the beating and then the death of Matthew Shepherd. I remember the lack of any outrage from religious fundamentalists over his murder.

[Naked Gents Rut]

But there are comparisons to be made.

Well, I agree that you can make some comparisons. I spoke too strongly earlier. I don't think the situations are overly comparable, however, and find it extremely annoying when gay activists try to conflate the two.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


I have a hard time believing that gays in the sticks are in hiding for fear of their lives all the time, mainly because I grew up in the sticks and the several openly gay people in the community didn't seem to have any problems.

Then you lived in a genuinely weird community. I know two gay teens who grew up in the sticks -- in Canada, even -- and they were genuinely scared. So far in the closet at school it's not even funny.

You just need to look at the overwhelming statistics of how many gay teens are in the closet during school to realize how many kids -- in the sticks and otherwise -- are "hiding in fear of their lives all the time". You also have no idea the stress it can add to live that double life for fear for your life -- physical abuse, mental abuse, being rejected by friends/family, etc.

It's a truly terrible situation and the lackadaisical attitude you have towards it is disappointing.

I'm not sure if you remember me in highschool, but it was the same for me. I went to a school in a major urban centre in Canada and there was not one openly gay student in a school of 2000 kids. There was one kid -- a flamboyant kid -- who everyone "knew" was gay while he denied it, and he was beat up several times and regularly had his locker vandalized... Since then, I know of at least a dozen kids who've come out since high school.

But the dynamics, both overt and subversive, is very damaging to the mental and physical health of gay students. I don't doubt in many cases it's any better than what blacks had to deal with in the 60s -- but at the very least, they didn't feel socially ostracized in most cases. While blacks were discriminated against, there was usually an active community at school they could lean on for support. Most gay teenagers are truly alone.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Then you lived in a genuinely weird community.

Maybe so. The grandpa of one of the girls in my class used to have big nude gatherings of gay men out on his farm. Everyone seemed to think it was funny.

Guy who ran the local burger joint was obviously gay, as were several guys at school. I'm not sure any of them were officially out, but everybody knew and didn't really care.

[MrFun]

The suicide rate among gay teenagers is terribly high.

[KrazyHorse]

They are both civil rights struggles. One also involved widescale, systematic and often lethal violence. One involves small-scale harassment, intimidation, assault and the occasional act of lethal violence.

Are the cops throughout the South cooperating with gay beatings and killings? No. But I can imagine, if I were a gay man, being very nervous about revealing my sexuality in certain regions of the US or Canada (and even being slightly nervous almost anywhere)

[MrFun]

Hell, in certain areas of United States, depending on the neighborhood, a gay couple often have to decide whether or not it's safe to simply hold hands together or show any kind of affection.

[Naked Gents Rut]

But I can imagine, if I were a gay man, being very nervous about revealing my sexuality in certain regions of the US or Canada

I think I'd be more scared in Harlem than small-town Nebraska. For real.

Then again, I see gay couples holding hands here all the time and nothing seems to happen to them.

[KrazyHorse]

The really interesting difference between the two is that black people are born to black parents. Gay people are not born to gay parents (or at least are not born to gay parents the majority of the time).

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun
Hell, in certain areas of United States, depending on the neighborhood, a gay couple often have to decide whether or not it's safe to simply hold hands together or show any kind of affection.

That's in most places in the world. My SO and I never, ever show PDA of any kind. At the very best, it attracts a lot of eyes which makes me uncomfortable. At worst, it's harassment by someone else.

Sidenote: My SO is not out to his dad yet. We've been together 5.5 years, most of it living together. His dad thinks we're just really good friends.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


I think I'd be more scared in Harlem than small-town Nebraska. For real.

I agree with you. There is a level of homophobia in much of the black community which "white" society would be hard-pressed to match.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut

Then again, I see gay couples holding hands here all the time and nothing seems to happen to them.

That's some good news to hear.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Asher

That's in most places in the world. My SO and I never, ever show PDA of any kind. At the very best, it attracts a lot of eyes which makes me uncomfortable. At worst, it's harassment by someone else.

Sidenote: My SO is not out to his dad yet. We've been together 5.5 years, most of it living together. His dad thinks we're just really good friends.

sigh


When I was with my long-term partner we did hold hands, for example, whenever we were at the local mall together. Sometimes we got nasty glances but no real confrontations.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun


That's some good news to hear.

He probably lives in Chelsea...