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  • Catholicism and Voting

    Some priests need to removed from their calling.

    A Catholic priest sought to suppress freedom of choice in voting.

    COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

    The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

    "Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.

    "Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."

    During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.

    But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.

    According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.

    "It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."

    Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.

    Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.

    "Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."

    A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.

    "I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    PRO-CHOICE DOES NOT MEAN PRO-ABORTION. And how is voting for a candidate that is pro-war and pro-death penalty any different?
    You've just proven signature advertising works!

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    • #3
      I can give you some Tylenol or Advil, Seedle - after I take some too.
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

      Comment


      • #4
        So Rev. Jay Scott Newman, how's the outlook on your church's tax-exempt status looking these days?
        The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

        The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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        • #5
          This is the first I've heard of any priest saying that you should refrain from communion because you voted a certain way.

          I do think that they should speak clearly and forcefully about the church's teaching on abortion, however. In the past, it was sometimes soft peddled and some worshipers got the wrong impression.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #6
            What we need to consider is that priests, ministers, choir singers are all still human, number one. Because of a position they hold doesn't speak for the majority, nor does it mean they're correct.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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            • #7
              This isn't a violation of freedom of choice at all. If you want to be a member of the Catholic church, then you have to promise to uphold the teachings of the Catholic church.

              If you don't want to follow what the church teaches, then why are you there?

              No one is forced to go to church, if they don't want to do what the church says then they are free to leave.

              Communion is only for those who are following the teachings of the church, not for those who are opposed to them. I cannot take communion if I do something against what the church teaches. Divorced people cannot take communion, anyone who is in a state of sin is not supposed to take communion.

              For me my first communion was a promise by me to uphold everything the church teaches. Not just some things, but all things. Catholics who chose to vote for Obama violated the church teachings on abortion by supporting someone who is unabashedly supportive of abortion.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • #8
                PRO-CHOICE DOES NOT MEAN PRO-ABORTION. And how is voting for a candidate that is pro-war and pro-death penalty any different?
                1. The Catholic church is not pacifist.

                2. It isn't. If you can find me a Catholic who supports the death penalty then go right ahead.

                If you are arguing that a Catholic should support someone who is for abortion and against the death penalty over someone who is for the death penalty and against abortion, the correct answer is that they should support neither.

                There is no justification for Catholics voting for anyone who is pro abortion.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • #9
                  Time out. I support the death penalty. My belief. That doesn't mean all Methodists/Protestants support the death penalty. I do. I, singular.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                    This isn't a violation of freedom of choice at all. If you want to be a member of the Catholic church, then you have to promise to uphold the teachings of the Catholic church.

                    If you don't want to follow what the church teaches, then why are you there?

                    No one is forced to go to church, if they don't want to do what the church says then they are free to leave.

                    Communion is only for those who are following the teachings of the church, not for those who are opposed to them. I cannot take communion if I do something against what the church teaches. Divorced people cannot take communion, anyone who is in a state of sin is not supposed to take communion.

                    For me my first communion was a promise by me to uphold everything the church teaches. Not just some things, but all things. Catholics who chose to vote for Obama violated the church teachings on abortion by supporting someone who is unabashedly supportive of abortion.
                    According to you... a Catholic, would never vote in an election. Because, I'm pretty sure that we would be able, for any political party, to find actions and thought that would be against gospel teaching.

                    Edit:
                    Just read your next post:
                    the correct answer is that they should support neither.
                    bleh

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                    • #11
                      Time out. I support the death penalty. My belief. That doesn't mean all Methodists/Protestants support the death penalty. I do. I, singular.
                      And you are free to do so. You aren't a member of the Catholic church, so what we say has no bearing on your membership of the Methodists.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        According to you... a Catholic, would never vote in an election. Because, I'm pretty sure that we would be able, for any political party, to find actions and thought that would be against gospel teaching.
                        There are very few things that are non-negotiable in Catholicism. One is the death penalty, and another is abortion. Another would be gay marriage.

                        So all you'd have to find is a candidate who was prolife and supports traditional marriage.

                        They aren't that hard to find. There are lots of them!
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                          There are very few things that are non-negotiable in Catholicism. One is the death penalty, and another is abortion. Another would be gay marriage.

                          So all you'd have to find is a candidate who was prolife and supports traditional marriage.

                          They aren't that hard to find. There are lots of them!
                          ... Maybe in some location in USA. But not in Canada. And anyway, if you vote for an independent or a minor party you lose your votes.

                          Some times this is the reason why I would support a different representation system. Like in Germany, which are having proportional representation.

                          I would be able to vote for my own crazy wacko political party
                          bleh

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                            And you are free to do so. You aren't a member of the Catholic church, so what we say has no bearing on your membership of the Methodists.
                            I'am a Catholic and I support everthing you have typed.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                              There are very few things that are non-negotiable in Catholicism. One is the death penalty, and another is abortion. Another would be gay marriage.

                              So all you'd have to find is a candidate who was prolife and supports traditional marriage.

                              They aren't that hard to find. There are lots of them!
                              Ok, and I appreciate it, but I'm going beyond Catholics. I'm saying, I only speak for me, not Protestants in general, not Methodists in particular. None of the things I say here represent other than me; and that only a part of the time.


                              EDIT: And thanks, Pat.
                              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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