How ****ed are we?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Kid, right. And it's not like credit has been used a lot in other countries as well, but it seems that the headlines now are about the US. I guess we just want to avoid the domino-effect right about now.

That's true. Credit can be used in other countries to stimulate domestic demand, but the US will have to do something else in the case of a depression.

So how does one come back from a situation like this? I see, without knowing anything about the economy, that the most important thing is to protect the dollar. Because the last thing we want is the working people losing the little savings they might have. Right? That's the worst case scenario. So, in order to do that, dollar must be protected. In order to do that, just... spendings must be cut, I don't see any other way. And of course make money while at it, and try to keep the middle class and lower class as healthy as possible so they continue to consume, I don't see any way of that happening unless they get a tax cut or at least continue the status quo and do something about the current situation, but what can be done really?

During the Great Depression the Nazi's couldn't use credit to get out from it, so they used import substitution among other things to at least create jobs. There's one thing that will hurt the US bad, and that's the case where China subsidizes it's exports even more. So, I don't think a strong dollar is important, however it can't get too weak because the US still has to import oil.

The government came in to save the banks, should they now save the people? Pay some of these new overheads, some of these crushing interests that are growing, so people can keep their homes, the ones that didn't already lose them?

In general home owners aren't hurt as much as a lot of people think they are. People who rent are probably hurting just as much because rents have gone up. The banks and corporations are going to hurt the most in the near future. Eventually they will shed off workers, and then workers will feel the pain.

I think shipping jobs overseas will make this situation even worse. What is needed is productivity and incentives for the employers who employee Americans and create American jobs. Can't compete with the Chinese? Well ****, no one can. There's a huge trade imbalance with them anyhow, I don't see this getting any better by making big business have all these tax cuts, so they can compete better, meaning that they will definitely take those jobs overseas in the future as well and try to dominate the Chinese in China, it's a battle for the next decade that they'd like to do right now and are doing it, but at the end it'll bite all of us in the ass and the few will get very mega rich in the process, but that money won't trickle down. I don't know why people should be begging for their mercy anyway. Screw them, the ones not creating jobs even when they very well could.

Productivity growth is not necessarily a good thing right now. In fact, it should be limited until there is more employment.

China is a sticky issue because they have all those dollar reserves. However, if the price of oil falls it will make the situation easier to deal with for the US.

[Pekka]

Yes. So the key would be to keep creating those jobs, and to avoid prices going up the roof.

But how is one going to do that, I don't mean oil, naturally the oil price should go down and that benefits everyone, but my point is all these necessities, the price of food and all these things. I don't see price fixing to be a good idea, so how do you keep the prices in check? I think you want to touch the whole thing as little as possible, but ensure job creation and certain stability with prices.

So basically you want to be hating on job exporting big business even more right about now, and giving a welcome hand to businesses creating new jobs. But there is another problem, what about so called crap jobs, I mean if there are incentives to employee new people, that often leads (in here) to a situatoin where the worker gets the crappiest deal possible, and has to work and becomes a robot who is dependent on that crappy dela since nothing else exists, then this kind of deal making becomes the norm. So the quality of jobs, how to ensure that? So that the businesses won't start ripping off the worker with these new incentives from the government?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes. So the key would be to keep creating those jobs, and to avoid prices going up the roof.

But how is one going to do that, I don't mean oil, naturally the oil price should go down and that benefits everyone, but my point is all these necessities, the price of food and all these things. I don't see price fixing to be a good idea, so how do you keep the prices in check? I think you want to touch the whole thing as little as possible, but ensure job creation and certain stability with prices.

The Nazis controled the growth of areas of the economy that weren't as necessary as others. That's the way they kept prices under control. Of course they also used direct price controls, but they only work when you have control over production. Too many times price controls are not used correctly.

So basically you want to be hating on job exporting big business even more right about now, and giving a welcome hand to businesses creating new jobs. But there is another problem, what about so called crap jobs, I mean if there are incentives to employee new people, that often leads (in here) to a situatoin where the worker gets the crappiest deal possible, and has to work and becomes a robot who is dependent on that crappy dela since nothing else exists, then this kind of deal making becomes the norm. So the quality of jobs, how to ensure that? So that the businesses won't start ripping off the worker with these new incentives from the government?

The more jobs people have the better they are able to negotiate better deals. It's when unemployment is high that the worker get screwed over.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Odd question:

If the world's supply of Ramen Noodles were simultaneously dumped into the oceans, how much would global sea levels drop?

-=Vel=-

My God man, if we dump those, and all those unused spongy-biscuit things they put at the bottom of trifles in the oceans, I think we will have solved sea level rises from global warming! Nobel prizes all round methinks :beer:

[Lancer]

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


My God man, if we dump those, and all those unused spongy-biscuit things they put at the bottom of trifles in the oceans, I think we will have solved sea level rises from global warming! Nobel prizes all round methinks :beer:

You're ignoring Fizzix.

Dumping ramen noodles into the sea won't decrease its volumn. Noodles + sea water = really fat noodles.

Everybody, give the Nobel prizes back.

[Lancer]

Even Einstein, Pasteur and Bush have ther detractors. Dump your Ramen, save the world.

[notyoueither]

Tow the noodles behind barges to Greenland and Antarctica and then seal them in airtight containers on the landmass(es) as replacements for the ice.

[Velociryx]

Ahhhh, my plan is gaining traction...excellent....

-=Vel=-

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Productivity growth is not necessarily a good thing right now. In fact, it should be limited until there is more employment.

Why would you want an unproductive economy?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Seedle


Why would you want an unproductive economy?

When you have massive unemployment productivity growth just aggravates unemployment.

[Grandpa Troll]

Re: Re: Re: How ****ed are we?

Originally posted by Lancer


Ok, I'll just practice panic this go round.

Well, if you were in Southeastern North Carolina, heck, I'd hire you if for no other reason than to set up a LAN Game of Call To Power, miss that game you are a nice guy

[SpencerH]

As of Nov 5, the "small" company (<500 employees) I work for has frozen all pay increases citing concern over the potential losses from Obamas new business taxes. Pointing out the irony of this to the stunned majority of other scientists who were so smug over Obama's victory is small consolation.

[Colon™]

Have you considered the management is just using Obama as an excuse to enforce a decision they felt was necessary anyway?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Colon™
Have you considered the management is just using Obama as an excuse to enforce a decision they felt was necessary anyway?

Yoou have a point, but for those of us who have access to P & L's, it is scary, I control pricing for my area and know what I am paying FOB for incoming materials (fluctuates some due to fuel costs) but you get a real good snapshot and there really is less and less meat on the bone to trim anymore, let alone give out

Efficiency is where you make or beak profit in my industry