Obama and Israel

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Zevico

Wow...layer upon layer of blindness.
It's one thing to be uncomfortable with an idea, it's another to oppose the existence of the state or, I don't know, posit that it's part of a grand conspiracy to take over the world. Or tolerate (or deny) the denial of the holocaust, or allege that 'zionists' took part in it.

a) I haven't seen him say anything about the holocaust (though I hardly pay attention to everything he says, so feel free to correct me on this)

b) The proper response is: Unbelievable!

[Imran Siddiqui]

it was that she refused to admit that doing so was a mistake

IIRC, so has Rahm.

[KrazyHorse]

Last time I checked, chiefs of staff normally don't make the decision to go to war. Why the **** would Obama apply a litmus test of having been against the Iraq war in order to work for his admin? The only person who needs good judgment on that is the President (assuming that Congress is a poodle when it comes to war....which it is)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Mostly because a lot of Obama supporters consider that to be having good judgment. Rahm's support for the war and not admitting it was a mistake would seemingly indicate his lack of judgment, which would be worrying in someone so close to the President.

[Zevico]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


a) I haven't seen him say anything about the holocaust (though I hardly pay attention to everything he says, so feel free to correct me on this)

b) The proper response is: Unbelievable!

a) True, but the Neturei Karta is all chummy with Iran. I was referring to them and their relationship (in as much as there is one) with the remainder of the Jewish community. The idea that some people are 'uncomfortable' with Israel hardly equates to support for Neteurei Karta's wacky positions on life, the universe and everything.
b) Unbelievable!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Mostly because a lot of Obama supporters consider that to be having good judgment.

I think that Obama's reasoning against the war very early on demonstrates good judgment, especially in the realm of foreign policy. I think that much of the US (both public figures as well as the population as a whole) demonstrated extremely bad judgment in 2002-2005. I stopped watching American news sources during that period because they had turned into an echo chamber of stupidity and credulousness.

My feeling is that circumstances made it very easy to have bad judgment during that period. Obama did a better job of standing against the tide, and I respect him for that. My hope is that with a less mendacious administration and 7 years after Sept. 11 such a level of judgment will not be necessary again.

In other words, Hillary's support for the war did not disqualify her from being President (there are a number of other criticisms which did so in my mind) but if given the choice I would choose somebody who displayed better judgment. This type of good judgment is most important in a President. Less important in a VP. Almost wholly unimportant in underlings.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I was speaking of those who believed Hillary's support of the war should have disqualified her (as I ran into plenty of people making that argument... then again, I'm sure the tune would have been reversed if she won the nom).

[KrazyHorse]

My major criticisms of Hillary have to do with mismanagement of her campaign as well as the cluster**** of health care reform from the early 90s.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Darius871
Ok slaughtermeyer, this is a serious question. If you truly believe that Obama is so likely to take U.S. policy out of lockstep with Zionist interests, then how do you reconcile that with the fact that his first appointment within a mere week of the election - for Chief of Staff at that - is a man who was raised by a Jerusalem-born Irgun member (who recently said in a Maariv interview that his son would unquestionably "influence the president to be pro-Israel"), was named after a Stern Gang member, pushed his fiance into converting to Judaism to have a valid ketubah, had dual US-Israeli citizenship for much of his life, was a civilian volunteer for the IDF in 1991, has had an active FBI counter-intelligence file against him for alleged ties to IDF intelligence after he came back (a file interestingly headed by John O'Neill, who you probably know as the counter-terrorism agent who was later pushed out of the FBI in a suspicious "smear campaign" and was coincidentally killed in the 9/11 attacks just two days after starting his new job at the WTC, and a file which was also reportedly nicknamed the "Mega file" which you probably know is in reference to Jonathan Pollard's Mossad superior code-named "Mega"), was the top House recipient in the 2008 election cycle of contributions from hedge funds & private equity firms, supported the invasion of Iraq, is a strong supporter of AIPAC, oversaw Obama's first introduction to AIPAC's directors, has been a committed Zionist his entire life, and has been unabashedly lauded in the Israeli press (including Haaretz, which you'd cited) as "our man in the White House"? Seriously, none of this gives you pause?

Originally posted by Darius871
...who voted for the Iraq war, 5) Rahm Emossadnuel whispering in his ear at all times, and 6) Joe Biden's cryptic remarks about...

PS for anyone that read this it should be obvious I just thought it'd be amusing to use a parody of slaughtermeyer's own "logic" against him. Now that the cognitive dissonance has either caused him flee or made his head explode Scanners-style, I can break character. Teh j00s really are good folks, honest.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Evidently I need to post some more. Here's a link that also would be appropriate in the Evil Veterans thread.

http://web.archive.org/web/20031106164013/http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=355227

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
And here I thought we had lost Sarkozy to Obamamania...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031943.html

He's exactly right.

It's not really surprising that Sarkozy takes a position toward Iran in sync with the Israeli one. The French daily Le Figaro has revealed that Sarkozy once worked for Israel as a sayan, Hebrew for 'collaborator.'

https://israel.indymedia.org/newswire/display/8002/index.php

[Zevico]

....Right. See that site is peopled by what seem to be idiots, quoting a Press TV (viz Iranian state propaganda) and Egyptian daily (viz the village idiot roundtable discussion, watched over carefully by the Egyptian state security services). Neither actually cite or link to the Le Figaro article. So it sounds like a bunch of utter crap to me. Though I suppose this keeps us in touch with what conspiracy theorists think these days. That's sort of an advantage.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Uri Avnery already sees hopeful signs that Obama will not be on "the wrong side of history."

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1232853498/

[Darius871]

And why should we find a Gush Shalom turncoat's unbridled optimism any more factually founded than yours?

[Slaughtermeyer]

And why should we find a Gush Shalom turncoat's unbridled optimism any more factually founded than yours?

Alleged turncoat. Although Ariel Sharon and others demanded that he be placed on trial for treason, the trial never took place.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1233508695/

Also an Israeli political party did attempt to strip Avnery of his citizenship:

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/article227.html

And it's possible to be a traitor and at the same time a patriot acting in the best interest of your country. The best example of this I can think of are the traitors who tried to assassinate Hitler.

And I would think that an Israeli former MK and Irgun member would have a better perspective on the effect of Obama's decisions upon Israel than an American like myself.