PETA just grossed me out!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I guess when you don't have a good argument to make you can open up wiki and pull out a bunch of terms to argue over the meaning of, huh?

Actually I'm trying to educate you. Showing you that there are incredibly variety and amount of feminism. It isn't one monolithic movement and never has been and people who act like it is are, IMO, morons.

I consider myself more of Postmodern Feminist (I won't wiki it for you, but you can get it yourself .

Feminism is about power relationships. Even those who reduce it to women's rights have to admit that it's basically about power relationships.

Yes, power relationships between the sexes! "Reduce it" my ass, that's what it is!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes, power relationships between the sexes! "Reduce it" my ass, that's what it is!

BS. Feminist is a way of thinking, just like marxist is a way of thinking. Sure it's about class struggle, but it's also a way of thinking about the world.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Actually I'm trying to educate you. Showing you that there are incredibly variety and amount of feminism. It isn't one monolithic movement and never has been and people who act like it is are, IMO, morons.

I consider myself more of Postmodern Feminist (I won't wiki it for you, but you can get it yourself .

I'm not talking about a movement. I'm talking about a way of thinking. Animal rights is a seperate movement. It's feminist thinking though.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
BS. Feminist is a way of thinking, just like marxist is a way of thinking. Sure it's about class struggle, but it's also a way of thinking about the world.

Nope. You are trying to reduce feminism to marxism/socialism. Won't work.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Nope. You are trying to reduce feminism to marxism/socialism. Won't work.

I'm not at all.

I know what you're problem is. You lake a comprehensive knowledge of left wing subject matter.

You see feminism started all the thinking about how power relationships work. It led to to the civil rights movement and all minority movements. It also led to the animal rights movements. All of these movements are possible to feminist thinking. That's because feminist thinking is alternative and revolutionary.

If you had a more comprehensive view of left wing subject matter you would understand that.

And marxism is something different.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That may, perhaps, be the looniest thing I've ever read. All roads come from the feminist movement?

I'm thinking, and just hold for a second, that people were interested in civil rights for racial or religious minorities at the same, if not earlier, than equal rights for the sexes.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
That may, perhaps, be the looniest thing I've ever read. All roads come from the feminist movement?

I'm thinking, and just hold for a second, that people were interested in civil rights for racial or religious minorities at the same, if not earlier, than equal rights for the sexes.

Jeez, you just don't get it do you? It's not just about equality. It's about how relationships work. In particular how power affects them. The first people to think like that were feminists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Jeez, you just don't get it do you? It's not just about equality. It's about how relationships work. In particular how power affects them. The first people to think like that were feminists.

So Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony were't feminists?

The first wave feminists were all about legal equality between the sexes. And yes, feminism is about how the relationships BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN work. Extrapolating that to everything else under the sun dealing with power relationships is just nonsense.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony were't feminists? The first wave feminists were all about legal equality between the sexes.

And yes, feminism is about how the relationships BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN work.

Then they must not be. Because if they are that contradicts what you just said, since they only struggled for legal equality.

Extrapolating that to everything else under the sun dealing with power relationships is just nonsense.

What do you call it then? There's a word for it you know. In fact there's words for most everything. Just becasue you haven't heard of the word, due to your limited experience doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Kidlicious]

I finally found something to source my POV. Argument over.

Some feminist scholars have posited that the hierarchies in businesses and government and all organizations need to be replaced with a decentralized ultra-democracy. Some argue that having any central leader in any organization is derived from the andocentric family structure (and therefore needs reform and replacement), and thus such scholars see the essence of feminism as beyond the surface issues of sex and gender.

http://www.umt.edu/wcenter/default_files/Page862.htm

[Lorizael]

Kid, what do you know about Venn diagrams?

[Kidlicious]

Visual representations.

[Q Classic]

There's the whole matter of the excerpts you picked:

Some feminist scholars have posited that the hierarchies in businesses and government and all organizations need to be replaced with a decentralized ultra-democracy. Some argue that having any central leader in any organization is derived from the andocentric family structure (and therefore needs reform and replacement), and thus such scholars see the essence of feminism as beyond the surface issues of sex and gender.

Two things:

1. "Some" can be used to slip questionable statements as fact: e.g., 'Some people also say there's a massive debate in the scientific establishment over evolution.'

2. "Some" doesn't necessarily suggest a majority, or even a plurality: e.g., 'Some computers are made by Apple.'

It's why they're sometimes considered Weasel Words; while in the original context of the article, they may have not been, the way you are presenting it as evidence clearly is changing their meaning.

But that's beside the point. I wasn't trying to invalidate your view. You, however, are trying to invalidate other peoples' views. You are claiming that there is but one monolithic feminist movement, tied to one monolithic type of feminist thought. You say there is but one reductionist definition of what feminism concerns itself about, and any competing definitions are in error. Because you believe you are correct, other viewpoints, clearly not in sync with your own, are invalid.

Hardly feminist thought.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Then they must not be. Because if they are that contradicts what you just said, since they only struggled for legal equality.

Feminism is both. Equality and how the relationships between the genders work. Did you mean the "And" in my statement... it ain't just one thing (as I've been saying over and over).

What do you call it then? There's a word for it you know.

What, differences between the power relationships between everything? Yeaaah, I'm betting it isn't called "feminism". Probably something like Power Dyanamics

Some feminist scholars have posited that the hierarchies in businesses and government and all organizations need to be replaced with a decentralized ultra-democracy. Some argue that having any central leader in any organization is derived from the andocentric family structure (and therefore needs reform and replacement), and thus such scholars see the essence of feminism as beyond the surface issues of sex and gender.

Emphasis added. Thanks for making my point.

[Elok]

I already know that Kid is wrong, because I'm a Decent Human Being, defined as a white male living in the eastern shore region of Maryland. Others may show aspects of Decent Humanity, by being white or male or living somewhere in MD. But the essence of it is in being exactly like me. Anyone who claims otherwise cannot be trusted, because that person is not a Decent Human Being. Because I said so. QED.