PETA just grossed me out!!

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious
And I don't.

Except you certainly seem to be thinking your viewpoint is more valid than mine, particularly with regards to how you've disparaged my viewpoints, my arguments, more or less said that I've been wrong, suggested that my use of the ideas behind feminism are in error, and even going so far as to suggest that I'm not even my own person, but rather a DL.

If that's not questioning the validity of my arguments, and by that suggesting your opinions are more valid, what is it?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Because feminism is about equality. You are judging humans to be superior to other animals.

You're assuming that I'm judging humans to be superior to animals. Which proves my point about the aphorisms. It's the second incorrect assumption you've made.

Subconsciously, that's entirely possible. Of course, subconsciously, I could also think that all humans are vile vermin that deserve extermination, or that I could seriously want to do my parents.

But consciously, the reason for my choice to favor human justice over animal justice first, but not exclusively, is more akin to a biblical notion. (Though I am not a religious person...)

That said, feminism, as I see it, is about equality--between male and female humans, first.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's not feminist type thinking

Feminists are concerned with the equality among women and men, or at least among humanity... other species don't come into it. I'm sure most feminists would be utterly shocked at your attempts to label them in this way.

And, btw, yes, I do consider myself a feminist. As does, IIRC, chegitz (or Comrade Snuggles as he's known today).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Feminist is a way of thinking. As in thinking like a women, specifically not like a man typically does, that is thinking that he is the only one with a valid point of view because he's more powerfull.

What you are describing is called Standpoint Feminism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standpoint_feminism

And Socialist Feminism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_feminism

(though Socialism Feminism doesn't appear to be super concerned with being vegans... which is what the logical end to your argument leads to)

It is not nearly the entire body of feminism, or even close.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Feminist is a way of thinking. As in thinking like a women, specifically not like a man typically does, that is thinking that he is the only one with a valid point of view because he's more powerfull.

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No, that's not at all a sexist thing to say. And here I was, about to hit you with my club and skin you to make a rug out of your pelt...thank you for showing me how wrong I was. Should we have a Reassurance Hug?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles

Except you certainly seem to be thinking your viewpoint is more valid than mine, particularly with regards to how you've disparaged my viewpoints, my arguments, more or less said that I've been wrong, suggested that my use of the ideas behind feminism are in error, and even going so far as to suggest that I'm not even my own person, but rather a DL.

If that's not questioning the validity of my arguments, and by that suggesting your opinions are more valid, what is it?

I don't always live up to my own beliefs. Also, I'm arrogant.

That said, I should say that I believe that if we were to have a different argument, according to my feminist beliefs, I shouldn't consider that my POV is more valid than yours.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


What you are describing is called Standpoint Feminism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standpoint_feminism

And Socialist Feminism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_feminism

(though Socialism Feminism doesn't appear to be super concerned with being vegans... which is what the logical end to your argument leads to)

It is not nearly the entire body of feminism, or even close.

It's more feminist than other feminists. Also, animal rights activists should be considered even more feminist than me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok




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No, that's not at all a sexist thing to say. And here I was, about to hit you with my club and skin you to make a rug out of your pelt...thank you for showing me how wrong I was. Should we have a Reassurance Hug?

So you actually believe that men don't tend to believe they are more important than women and children because they are either more powerfull than they are or they are more domineering? This whole website is a shining example of that.

[Elok]

Well, I can't speak for other men, but I've never thought such a thing. I sometimes used to think I was more important than other people because I was SMARTER than them, but not in a gender-based way, and I was always too ashamed to admit it to myself. AFAIC your "women are the nice and nurturing ones and men are barbarians" line is garden-variety misandrist hooey.

And if you think this website, with its diversity of opinion--both sane and otherwise--is an overall example of anything except the tendency of the internet to bring out one's inner bully and extremist...I repeat,

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
Well, I can't speak for other men, but I've never thought such a thing. I sometimes used to think I was more important than other people because I was SMARTER than them, but not in a gender-based way, and I was always too ashamed to admit it to myself.

You say that you sometimes used to think that you were better than others because you are smarter. I say you still do think that, and more often than you think. I've seen it over and over, and it's essentially not a feminist way of thinking.

But I'm wondering why you can't see how another man would thing that he's better than other people because he's stronger and more domineering than them. I wonder why you don't see, for example, that many americans think the US is always right, because it's stronger than other countries.

AFAIC your "women are the nice and nurturing ones and men are barbarians" line is garden-variety misandrist hooey.

What planet do you live on? Women are most definitely more nurturing. Why don't you sign up to substitute a class full of young children and see how easy it is for you? Women are more often in more nurturing roles simply because they are better at it.

[Seedle]

Okay, I was...not as right as I thought I was. It is reasonable to conclude that in order to completely replace animal milk with human breast milk, human women would have to be treated like livestock. I agree with this, and to that extent, Comrade Snuggles's statement was not absurd. I still disagree that PETA (and please note, I am not a fan of PETA, they're nuts) wants women to be livestock, however. It may be the logical result of following their proposed policy, but I don't think logic, or thinking things through, is their strong suit. And I still maintain that the simple act of selling your breastmilk does not make you cattle.

[Heresson]

I've seen some film about PETA on the internet. They support "human rights" terrorists, have links to them. Vice-president of the organisation uses some medicine made out of animals, in disaccordance with the stance of the organisation, and claims she has to do it, because otherwise "she wouldn't be able to fight for animals". PETA is a scary organisation, it should be kept under surveilance (?), and perhaps shut down.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
It's more feminist than other feminists. Also, animal rights activists should be considered even more feminist than me.

Ok, admit it, you are a right winger's DL.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
What planet do you live on? Women are most definitely more nurturing. Why don't you sign up to substitute a class full of young children and see how easy it is for you? Women are more often in more nurturing roles simply because they are better at it.

And this is what we call "Cultural Feminism":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_feminism

Are these any more or less feminist than the other strands you pull from?

[Kidlicious]

I guess when you don't have a good argument to make you can open up wiki and pull out a bunch of terms to argue over the meaning of, huh?

Feminism is about power relationships. Even those who reduce it to women's rights have to admit that it's basically about power relationships.