Obama Opens Up a 9-Point Lead

[Darius871]

But that's still an "X is Z because both use Y" (or at least an "X is very much like Z because both use Y") non-sequitur unless I misunderstand the definition of "maverick."

There are many things McCain does and believes which are distinctly Bushlike, but criticizing a vulnerable association in a campaign opponent's past is nothing more than distinctly human.

Meh, we're kicking a dead horse here.

[Ramo]

I'm not sure where you saw "X = Z" ("McCain = Bush" or "McCain = Rove") in the above conversation.

[Darius871]

To the extent that arguing against maverick-ness implies it. Unless one of us misunderstands the meaning of maverick in this context.

[Ramo]

I have no idea what you mean. Bush and McCain are obviously different in some important ways (and similar in a lot of important ways). But you're right, dead horse pretty thoroughly beaten.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Darius871
Meh, we're kicking a dead horse maverick here.

fixed

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ramo
You're conceding McCain's enormous character and judgment deficiencies? Since Kissinger was a far bigger terrorist than Ayers...

You don't even have to go as far as Kissinger. Just point to McCain's cozy relationship with right-wing felon and terrorist-wannabe G. Gordon Liddy. It's much, much closer than Obama's relationship with Ayers.

Not to mention his ties to Jack Abramoff, and Charles Keating...

[Naked Gents Rut]

God, if only there could be a public debate on this. Dear god, please let Obama try to counter Ayers, Johnson, Raines, Rezko and Wright with Abramoff, Keating, Kissinger and Liddy.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
And "change" is someone who votes 97% of the time with the Democrats.

I believe good change has happened and will continue to happen more often with Democrats than with Republicans.

The very definition of conservatism (this case, with Republicans) is a strong aversion or fear of real changes.

[Naked Gents Rut]

The very definition of conservatism (this case, with Republicans) is a strong aversion or fear of real changes.

If only this were true. I miss real conservatives...

[Velociryx]

I'm curious, Naked:

Do you acknowledge that we're in a bit of a pickle right now?

If you do, how much of that do you attribute to the policies & agenda of the sitting president (who, no matter how you define him, ain't one of them "libruls")--among other descriptors I have and continue to use, the guy's a conservative post turtle....

How do you envision things would have been improved if only we'd had a "real" conservative in the big chair?

Frankly, having given you guys eight years to get it right, and seeing how far we are from the mark, I'm ready to give some other group a go, but that's just me.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: And odds are excellent that I'll get my way this time around.

[Naked Gents Rut]

George W. Bush isn't a real conservative. He presided over a massive expansion of the federal government and a recklessly interventionist foreign policy. Unfortunately, neither Obama nor McCain are going to correct the latter. McCain might correct the former (Obama certainly won't), but it will be difficult with Congress firmly in the hands of the Democrats. Sadly, America seems screwed for at least another four years.

If only we could bring back Bush's dad...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
George W. Bush isn't a real conservative. He presided over a massive expansion of the federal government

Wow!


In the past eight years, federal regulators of our economy have been in hibernation for the most part during the entire Bush administration's time in White House.

What was the result of this hibernation? The economic mess we have right now.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Don't talk about things you don't understand, Mr. Fun.

[Imran Siddiqui]

George W. Bush isn't a real conservative. He presided over a massive expansion of the federal government and a recklessly interventionist foreign policy.

It's kinda why the rest of the Republican party basically treats W. as a third party President. Wide swaths of it despise him for either prescription drug benefit, immigration "amnesty", or the Department of Homeland Security... among others.

[Kidlicious]

I guess martians elected him president twice.