Barack Obama's latest speech

[MrFun]

For the record, I'm not voting for Obama because I ever thought he was a saint. He's been involved in unethical dealings just like all politicians, including John McSame.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by rah
He's just another effing politician.

I've never believed nor stated anything different. But I'll be damned if I'll vote for another term for Karl Rove and friends.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by rah
"There is no upside here"

Code for no balls. If he really stood for reform he would get in the middle.

Thanks for agreeing with me. He's just another effing politician. He's not the one we've been waiting for.

here is an politician you have all been waiting for but hell yeah who is/was going to vote for him?

this was more than a year ago...

[rah]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

I've never believed nor stated anything different.

That was my original statement. He's no different despite his claims. You have agreed. Thank you.

I have no problem that you want to vote for him. At least your reason for voting for him is not that he's a reformer and an outsider.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by rah

Thanks for agreeing with me. He's just another effing politician. He's not the one we've been waiting for.

Perhaps that's what you need. I mean eight years of a complete cretin and the prospect of more from incompetent boobyheads would presumably be worse than JAFP.

But hey, please elect the idiots again. Please...

[rah]

I don't dislike Obama. He's a bit left for me.
But the hero worship is annoying. There are quite a few good reasons to vote for him. But for those that are voting for him because they think he's a clean, outsider, or a reformer, then they're delusional. He's just another politician. You have to be to get to where he is. And for the record, I don't think McCain is a saint either. Or that just because he was a POW he's entitled to be the president. Or that by being in the service makes him automatically qualified to be commander and chief.

[-Jrabbit]

Obama is an outsider in the sense that he's only been in Washington for 4 years. He hasn't had the time to be fully corrupted (as all long-time politicians inevitably are), and has created a fundraising machine that allows him to keep lobbyists at arm's length.

John "Flip-Flop" McCain claims to be a maverick. Obama claims to be an outsider. Both are the candidates of "change." This is just marketing/branding for the products being sold to us.

As well you know.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by rah
I don't dislike Obama. He's a bit left for me.

Obama would be a far right politician in any other modern democracy. Hell, your democrats are well to the right of our conservative party.

But the hero worship is annoying. There are quite a few good reasons to vote for him. But for those that are voting for him because they think he's a clean, outsider, or a reformer, then they're delusional.

Well, any democrat would certainly be a reformer after eight years of ridiculous mismanagement and faith based economic policies.

The hero worship is simply what you guys do. Reagan was the same. So was Kennedy.

He's just another politician. You have to be to get to where he is.

Blame democracy. Or more accurately, blame your kind of democracy. We don't have this kind of "personality politics". I really can't recall any of the three countries I have lived in having anything like it. Mudslinging in our elections in NZ is primarily over policy, although the current one will probably be on trust because the opposition party was caught out in a massive deceit last time around and people are gun shy this time.

Our Prime Minister is a lesbian in a show marriage. Everybody knows it. Yet the media would not dare make an issue of it and the opposition would not dare because they would lose the election, because we don't stand for that kind of sleazy, personal politics. It's about the issues, and character only matters when it is relevant to the issues.

What would happen to Obama or McCain if they were caught hiding the sausage with another bloke? Can you imagine it?

I mean, seriously, what is wrong with your country when it comes to politics? It is NOT normal. You can put a guy on the moon, but when it comes to elections, you come over like toddlers. What gives?

And for the record, I don't think McCain is a saint either. Or that just because he was a POW he's entitled to be the president. Or that by being in the service makes him automatically qualified to be commander and chief.

He doesn't have to be a saint. He just has to be competent.

[rah]

I'm not quite sure when the personal slinging started. It certainly wasn't like that for Kennedy. His personal life was not a valid target for the press. So other politicians wouldn't think of using anything like that.

I guess the explosion of the gray press is the root cause. Once you start being bombarded with all the personal stuff at every check out counter you start to get a bit immune to the indignation you should feel about this kind of thing. Once you don't actively complain about it, campaign managers are going to be more likely to use it, because it's been proven to work. After it's been successful, it's hard to turn back to the old way. I wish we could turn back.

[-Jrabbit]

On mudslinging and the politics of the partisan press:

Originally posted by rah
I wish we could turn back.

Now that would be a change we could believe in.

[PLATO]

The first real mudslinging about a candidate's family I can remember was when the republicans went after Carter on his comment that he spoke with Amy about nuclear weapons policy.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by MrFun
...... John McSame.

Ooooooooh! Good 'un.

[MrFun]

I try my best, Zkrib.

In other news, I read today that most of the different women's rights organizations have rallied in support behind Obama.

Just goes to show that even though Palin has the same sexual reproductive organs as Clinton, that many women are still intelligent enough to realize that these two women could not be farther apart in differences on various issues concerning women.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by MrFun
I try my best, Zkrib.

In other news, I read today that most of the different women's rights organizations have rallied in support behind Obama.

Just goes to show that even though Palin has the same sexual reproductive organs as Clinton, that many women are still intelligent enough to realize that these two women couldn't not be farther apart in differences on various issues concerning women.

Yes!

Unlike certain other mostly monolithic voting blocks.

Spoiler:

the evangelicals

[Imran Siddiqui]

Or

Spoiler:

Black people

(though probably that is what asleep was trying to insinuate before throwing a curve )