Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How the US blew their chance to get Russia as an ally.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How the US blew their chance to get Russia as an ally.

    Back in the eighties, however ridiculous it might sound, the population of the USSR was one of the most pro-American. The USA were a symbol of better life, not because of their two-party system or their free market, but because of their consumer goods. No, we didn't choose freedom, we chose jeans, cola and bubble gum. This, and we stopped executing senior party leaders, which allowed a spineless idiot to get to the top. Yeah, the one with a birthmark.
    Anyway, back in 1991, people were expecting the USSR to turn into the USA. Actually, they were expecting it to turn into the USSR with jeans, cola and bubble gum, but were greatly disillusioned, as a lot of things that were taken for granted suddenly disappeared:
    - free education, from kindergartens to post-grad;
    - free medicine, including dentistry, yes;
    - free housing;
    - inexpensive food;
    - their life savings;
    - sense of security.
    This meant the USSR turned not into the USA of the people's dreams, but into the USA of Soviet propaganda. And this was the best chance for the US to gain a new friend, to forge a juggernaut of an alliance.
    What was needed was a new Marshall plan. The States could've used parts of their now superflous military budget to help Russia adapt its economy to the global market. The population would be grateful, and the later mutual profit would be immense.
    What was done instead? Well, a "shock therapy" was recommended to be used in Russia, and there was also a lot of "Commies taking it in the ass " in the land of the brave. This wasn't what the people expected. At all.
    Around 1994 the support for the US started to wane quite noticeably. It took a big hit when our economy defaulted in 1998 and hit rock bottom when NATO bombed our historical ally, Serbia, in 1999.
    Even now, if you held a referendum, "America, **** yeah" would lose big time to "America, **** it". And this is the biggest difference between now and the Cold War. Back then, the States were seen as a generally positive force and even when they were doing their best to alienate the Union they weren't alienating the Soviet people, and now they're seen as an aggressive world policeman, and any action against Russia doesn't help their image in the eyes of an average Russian.
    Graffiti in a public toilet
    Do not require skill or wit
    Among the **** we all are poets
    Among the poets we are ****.

  • #2
    You're whack.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

    Comment


    • #3
      There is no question that something went seriously wrong with Russia's attempts to embrace capitalism. I, personally, think that it is mostly the fault of the capitalists, who don't understand how capitalism improves the lives in the countries it does, and ruins lives in other countries.

      JM
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

      Comment


      • #4
        Or else the capitalists were evil, and just wanted to exploit russia as much as possible 'right now'*.

        JM
        *back in the 90s
        Jon Miller-
        I AM.CANADIAN
        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

        Comment


        • #5
          The countries that embraced the sharpest turns from communism are now the most successful economically. See, e.g., the Czech Republic and Poland.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment


          • #6
            Did all their businesses and property get bought up by a few?

            JM
            Jon Miller-
            I AM.CANADIAN
            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not that I've heard.

              Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Estonia, Hungary, etc. are all knocking on the door of the 1st world, less than 20 years after communism.

              Russia is one of the exceptions, despite its recent resurgence due to rises in commodities prices.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

              Comment


              • #8
                Russia pissed on the offer.

                I know many many Russians who left to come over here, and all of them, the most important thing is that Russia had the opportunity to join the economic system of the west.

                There's no excuse for having to invade your neighbour, who has been peaceful.

                Here's a fact. Russia's time has passed. For all the posturing of Putin, Russia is far weaker then she was 20 years previous, and weaker then she was 10 years ago.

                Have you forgotten that the west let you in G8 despite not having the economy to justify entry, or the political freedoms?

                I have no animosity towards Russians. I went to a Mennonite church comprised of Russian emigres for some time. I can say with a straight face that I love Georgia and I love Russia but I hate Putin.

                If Russia wants to go at it alone, she is doing her best to drive away her allies.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  The countries that embraced the sharpest turns from communism are now the most successful economically. See, e.g., the Czech Republic and Poland.
                  Actually Slovenia is more successful and it took a very carefull path to capitalism. Actually we probably aren't really capitalist we just went from a socialism that was democratic in theory to democracy that is socialist in theory.


                  We still have our free health care and schools, and our police force does a reasonable job of keeping us safe.
                  The only big problem is inflation, but this is currently a global trend.

                  To unleash capitalism into a unprepared society is just asking for a collapse.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There are counterexamples. But in any event, as relates to this thread, did Slovenia get Marshall Plan style help from the US?
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanS
                      Not that I've heard.

                      Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Estonia, Hungary, etc. are all knocking on the door of the 1st world, less than 20 years after communism.

                      Russia is one of the exceptions, despite its recent resurgence due to rises in commodities prices.
                      And Slovenia is a 1st world country.

                      Quality of life

                      25 France 7.084
                      26 Germany 7.048
                      27 Slovenia 6.986
                      28 Malta 6.934
                      29 United Kingdom 6.917
                      Advanced economies according to the IMF

                      Australia
                      Austria
                      Belgium
                      Canada
                      Cyprus
                      Denmark
                      Finland
                      France
                      Germany
                      Greece
                      Hong Kong SAR

                      Iceland
                      Ireland
                      Israel
                      Italy
                      Japan
                      Korea
                      Luxembourg
                      Malta
                      Netherlands
                      New Zealand
                      Norway

                      Portugal
                      Singapore
                      Slovenia
                      Spain
                      Sweden
                      Switzerland
                      Taiwan Province of China
                      United Kingdom
                      United States
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So is the Czech Republic. As far as I can tell, the Czechs' move away from Communism was dramatic.

                        Edit: Congratulations. It was probably all those car factories pumping out Yugos.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DanS
                          So is the Czech Republic. As far as I can tell, the Czechs' move away from Communism was dramatic.
                          Quality of life
                          27 Slovenia 6.986
                          34 Flag of the Czech Republic Czech Republic 6.629

                          GDP per capita

                          30 Slovenia 22,934 USD
                          36 Chezc Republic 17,138 USD


                          Still Slovenia outperformed what you considered your best example.
                          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Again, did the US provide Marshall Plan-style aid to Slovenia?
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              The countries that embraced the sharpest turns from communism are now the most successful economically. See, e.g., the Czech Republic and Poland.
                              How hard is it to do a U-turn on a Mini Cooper, and how hard is it to do a U-turn on a Kamaz?
                              Graffiti in a public toilet
                              Do not require skill or wit
                              Among the **** we all are poets
                              Among the poets we are ****.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X