It's war. Part II

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by Lancer
I thought you were replying to the strategic oil reserve post I made, wrong thread in that case.

I did. I just threw in that NATO question coz it hit me as I sat here.


Anyway, I don't know how politics works up there in the sky, but I figure that if NATO doesn't want to look hostile towards the aggressor (Russia), it has to wait for Ukraine to admit that its country is under fear of attack before NATO will hold their hand, right?

I mean, Russia isn't going to hit anyone wearing glasses are they?

[Lancer]

Of course they would. They would also hit a girl.

[BeBMan]

I get reports here that Medvedev says "it's over", offensive stopped. Can't post more now, have to go into real life. So someone else has to post some article

See ya later

[Traianvs]

Yeah, but Russian troops stay, and are instructed to defend themselves if necessary. Secretary of foreign affairs Lavrov also wants Georgian troops out of SO for good. The same Lavrov said earlier that Saakasjvili needs to step down, and that Russia doesn't want to negotiate with him.

[onodera]

Yup, we've stopped slapping Georgia around with our military, time to slap it around diplomatically.

[Saras]

****, these Moscow guys are shrewd operators.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by BeBro
I get reports here that Medvedev says "it's over", offensive stopped. Can't post more now, have to go into real life. So someone else has to post some article

See ya later

I have a German article here http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...571474,00.html , and I likewise can't be arsed to find an english one (since at work). A good place to start is probable here: www.google.com

Originally posted by Traianvs
Yeah, but Russian troops stay, and are instructed to defend themselves if necessary.

Troops defending themselves? The horror!

Secretary of foreign affairs Lavrov also wants Georgian troops out of SO for good.

As was to be expected.

The same Lavrov said earlier that Saakasjvili needs to step down,

Who is Georgian head of state is none of Russia's business...

...and that Russia doesn't want to negotiate with him.

...but with whom they want to negotiate and with whom not is their choice.

[onodera]

Well, what makes you think we'll be invading Lithuania next?
I wouldn't worry about the Ukraine, Timoshenko is a shrewd politician, she's not as quixotic as Misha, we'll get along.

[Asmodean]

There is a lesson to be learned from this conflict. But I'm not sure it is one I want to be taught.

Russia is back on the world stage, and are ready to exact their influence over their former republics.

I guess I don't need to clarify my position on Russia. Clearly a country the world could do without. But also quite clearly one we will have to take seriously

Asmodean

[Traianvs]

Re: Here's an Article Worth Reading, IMO

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Everyone:

It's been a while since I've had time to do this, but here we go: While at work, I found this gem of a story moving on the raw news wires and am posting it at 'Poly for your reading pleasure.

It's a pretty interesting piece — one that attempts to dissect the immediate roots of the Russian-Georgian conflict — and was written by a well-regarded journalist (yes, they do exist and, no, your average cable/radio talking head isn't a journalist).

Peruse the article and, afterward, feel free to tell the thread what you think about it.

Gatekeeper

That's a bit how I feel about it too. It doesn't focus too much on Georgia's motives though. Russia is no saint, as the article clearly demonstrates, but Georgia isn't either. Like US officials said Saakasjvili was stupid to invade. He was fooled like a little kid.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by onodera
Well, what makes you think we'll be invading Lithuania next?
I wouldn't worry about the Ukraine, Timoshenko is a shrewd politician, she's not as quixotic as Misha, we'll get along.

Timoshenko is a big time crook siding with mobsters like Volkov, a two-faced moneylaundering thug who sold out (according to an article I read) the Ukrainian economy under Leonid Koetsjma, and now he's sided with Timoshenko's treacherous biatch rule. Of course you'll get along. Putin and her are like minds, hah.

Originally posted by Harovan


I have a German article here http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...571474,00.html , and I likewise can't be arsed to find an english one (since at work). A good place to start is probable here: www.google.com



Troops defending themselves? The horror!

Yeah, but it also means the Russians aren't really pulling out of the war. Semantics...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Traianvs
Yeah, but it also means the Russians aren't really pulling out of the war. Semantics...

Nah, common sense. Saakashvili also declared a one-sided truce, but forgot to tell his artillery to stop shelling Tskhinvali. Maybe he forgets to tell his troops to no longer fire at Russians as well.

[Patroklos]

Just to make it easier for all of you languishing in invalid comparisons, there are nothing but superficial similarities between Kosovo, Georgia, and Iraq.

Please continue

[Pekka]

Pat, right.

It makes a dangerous argument. First of all, these aren't the same things. Quite obviously here comes the first problem.

The second problem comes if you are against action in Kosovo and Iraq. Which is being a bigger hypocrite? First, you punch someone in the face. Bystander shouts "hey, don't do that, *******!". Then the bystander punches someone else in the face and you shout "Hey, dont' do that!" and then the bystander says well, you did it too, so what, I can't do it now?

It's first establishing a platform for yourself, but then going against your own platform a moment later, using an argument that basically is..... hypocritical. An extreme example would be to judge someone for murder, and then murder someone yourself and justify it by saying well, others do it too. So it's not just an "others do it too" justification, it's worse.

So no, that argument is the worst possible to be used here anyway. The only way you could get away with it is if you are opposed these actions on a consistent basis. Or for them all. But you can't be going back and forth and then on top of that call everyone else a hypocrite, because that is hypocritical in itself already.

[Patroklos]

Oh, also, the SO capital was not "destroyed."