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  • #196
    I have to say, I agree almost entirely with Agathon re: socialized medicine in this thread. The inefficiency of our current system is what drives me nuts. We, as a nation, simply cannot afford the path we're on. It's got to change.

    I like the sound of NZ's system. Basic care provided by the government, with extra available privately.

    ...

    rah,

    You were THAT scared of John Kerry? Seriously? Knowing the outcome of re-upping Bush, you'd do it again? I'm struggling not to agree with Oerdin here.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #197
      It is. It's two clicks away instead of one. Teh horror.


      So are yo usaying it doesn't bother you that Obama sees nuclear power as so unimportant it is not an his webpage, not included at all in an exectuive summary of his key energy policy points, and even in the full PDF is burried pages down with less than a page devoted to it?
      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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      • #198
        Most models work on that premise - a universal public insurer + supplementary insurance. I like the French model, personally.

        AFAIK, only the Canadians appear to have pure single payer, which doesn't appear to be efficient. They also nonsocialized caregivers, which also doesn't appear to be inefficient. Despite that, they're still significantly better then us as far as the WHO, etc. are concerned.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • #199
          dp
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

          Comment

          • #200
            So are yo usaying it doesn't bother you that Obama sees nuclear power as so unimportant it is not an his webpage, not included at all in an exectuive summary of his key energy policy points, and even in the full PDF is burried pages down with less than a page devoted to it?
            No. Given that he has noted his support for nuclear power in a number of speeches I've seen him give or read, took the pro-nuclear stance in the debate when his opponents were anti-nuclear (and this, BTW, is why it's not on the summary - it wasn't popular during primary season), and it most assuredly is on the web site. No I'm not worried that it's two clicks away instead of one.

            I'm much more worried about McCain's blatant flip flops on cap and trade. Not voting for anemic legislation (Lieberman-Warner nee Lieberman-McCain) that he previously supported to cowtow to energy industry.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

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            • #201
              (and this, BTW, is why it's not on the summary - it wasn't popular during primary season)
              In case you haven't noticed, the primary season is over. The politics of change

              No matter how much you wish it Ramo, nuclear power are not important to Obama's energy poicy. I am sorry for your disappointment.
              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

              Comment

              • #202
                Yes, two clicks instead of one. So difficult.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #203
                  Originally posted by Arrian
                  You were THAT scared of John Kerry? Seriously? Knowing the outcome of re-upping Bush, you'd do it again?
                  The outcome of District of Columbia v Heller seems like a good enough reason to vote for Bush over Kerry again at least to me.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                  Comment

                  • #204
                    Originally posted by Arrian
                    I have to say, I agree almost entirely with Agathon re: socialized medicine in this thread. The inefficiency of our current system is what drives me nuts. We, as a nation, simply cannot afford the path we're on. It's got to change.

                    Most expensive healthcare in the world.
                    Shortest life expectency in the industrialized world.
                    Highest infant-mortality rate in the industrialized world.

                    Unfortunately, neither major Presidential candidate has proposed a solution.

                    Comment

                    • #205
                      Originally posted by Arrian
                      I like the sound of NZ's system. Basic care provided by the government, with extra available privately.
                      I could not possibly be more conficted on this particular issue. All people in the US should have some basic level of coverage, that would require some form of universal heath care or govt administered heath insurance. However, every time the US government has gotten involved in health care up to this point, it has been an unmitigated disaster. I don't have any idea how to resolve this.

                      In fact, embarassingly enough, I don't even have any clue what each of the candidates have proposed. Can anyone give me the brief synopsis?
                      The undeserving maintain power by promoting hysteria.

                      Comment

                      • #206
                        Originally posted by DirtyMartini
                        .... However, every time the US government has gotten involved in health care up to this point, it has been an unmitigated disaster.
                        You mean like Medicare. How many seniors are seeking to get rid of this program?

                        Comment

                        • #207
                          Originally posted by Zkribbler
                          You mean like Medicare. How many seniors are seeking to get rid of this program?
                          He means HMO's.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment

                          • #208
                            Originally posted by Zkribbler


                            You mean like Medicare. How many seniors are seeking to get rid of this program?
                            Medicare is a great example. It is rife with waste due to government mandated bueaurocracy and paperwork. It sets the standard for health care reimbursment (ie doctor gets paid X for office visit, lab gets paid Y for lab test) for the entire industry. Nominally, this reimbursement is set by medical professionals, but Congress ultimately decides. The reimbursement system makes no sense, it is unfair, and it is easily manipulated. It manages to create massive waste, while at the same time woefully underfunding essential services. It fails to keep up with advances in technique. I could go on.
                            The undeserving maintain power by promoting hysteria.

                            Comment

                            • #209
                              HMO's were invented by Kaiser Steel.

                              Comment

                              • #210
                                Originally posted by Zkribbler
                                HMO's were invented by Kaiser Steel.
                                What have I told you about your google-fu?

                                The Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-222), also known as the HMO Act of 1973, 42 U.S.C. § 300e, is a law passed by the Congress of the United States that resulted from discussions Paul Ellwood had with what is today the Department of Health and Human Services. It provided grants and loans to provide, start, or expand a Health Maintenance Organization (HMO); removed certain state restrictions for federally qualified HMOs; and required employers with 25 or more employees to offer federally certified HMO options alongside traditional indemnity insurance upon request (the "dual choice provision"). HMOs were required to meet three basic requirements. These were to offer a specified list of benefits to all members, charge all member the same monthly premium, and be structured as a nonprofit organization.

                                The Act solidified the term HMO and gave HMOs greater access to the employer-based market, providing for the rapid expansion of HMOs in later years. No longer needed now that HMOs are widespread, the dual choice provision expired in 1995.
                                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                                Comment

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