A question about Religon and Progress

[Ben Kenobi]

Is the evolution of viruses and bacteria observed in laboratory conditions not enough for you, BK?

Do the viruses stop being viruses, or do they just become a different kind of virus? Evolution presumes that the nature itself changes, in that it's no longer a virus but something else altogether.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sandman:

If the variation between poodles and mastiffs is evidence, does that mean that Verne Troyer is evidence of evolution?

Is he the next step to where humanity will go?

[FrostyBoy]

If women favoured him and people like him, yes.

Now you understand, don't you. Yes, it struck you like a bolt of lightning. Join the dark side now... well it's not that dark.




The real question is, would you think any less of God's divine design of human beings if our species did in fact become like Verne a million years from now, with ancient photo's and video's showing what men used to look like.

ahhhh you didn't think about that one did you, shame on you Ben for not thinking outside the square, you inside square thinker!

[fed1943]

I believe in God, the One, the Almighty, the All Knowledge, the Creator.

But I do not believe in the small God made from man image.

So, I do not believe in miracles (see St.Agustin's definition) or any
kind of Divine intervention, because I believe Divine Law needs no
exception.

And, because I believe God is the Creator, not the Modifier, it is not
possible to find any evidence about His existence/being.

Best regards,

[Elok]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Sandman:

If the variation between poodles and mastiffs is evidence, does that mean that Verne Troyer is evidence of evolution?

Is he the next step to where humanity will go?

This post would seem to imply that you grossly misunderstand evolution. Dwarfism is a single freak mutation which could be beneficial, I suppose, under some circumstances. If all food suddenly only became available in small, confined spaces, Troyer would have a decisive edge.

One midget born little by pure chance, however, is evidence of nothing. He wasn't (AFAIK) bred like a chihuahua, nor did his environment dictate how his ancestors adapted.

[onodera]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Do the viruses stop being viruses, or do they just become a different kind of virus? Evolution presumes that the nature itself changes, in that it's no longer a virus but something else altogether.

Do you have any idea of the pace of the evolution? A virus changing into a different one over several years is practically lightning fast. I don't think you'll live to see the result of an experiment you want to see.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Most people who beleif in God have that beleif be a central assumption. On the same level as the beleif in empiricism. Why should the existence of a creator need to be deduced or 'proved' when other assumptions aren't required to be (and in fact, can't be)?

JM

Exactly. When Spinoza was asked to prove the definitions and axioms at the core of his ethics, he just answered that they couldn't be proven, and that people needed to look instead at the internal plausibility developed by his propositions.

[Ben Kenobi]

This post would seem to imply that you grossly misunderstand evolution. Dwarfism is a single freak mutation which could be beneficial, I suppose, under some circumstances. If all food suddenly only became available in small, confined spaces, Troyer would have a decisive edge.

One midget born little by pure chance, however, is evidence of nothing. He wasn't (AFAIK) bred like a chihuahua, nor did his environment dictate how his ancestors adapted.

Human beings are under selective pressure as well. The point I was making is that people do have plenty of variation, but that doesn't change the nature of the person. Same with dogs. A chihuahua might be tiny, but the chihuahua is still a dog, not a cat.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you have any idea of the pace of the evolution? A virus changing into a different one over several years is practically lightning fast. I don't think you'll live to see the result of an experiment you want to see.

Darwin tested and proved differentiation in grasses, and was able to show over time, how they changed in order to fill ecological niches. However, the caveat remained in all of these cases, that the species itself remained the same.

This is why I think the viruses are still viruses, this is differentiation, not evolution. One species is not changing into another.

[Sandman]

A chihuahua might be tiny, but the chihuahua is still a dog, not a cat.

But dogs and cats are both carnivora, and are pretty similar. Given enough time, you could breed dogs that were almost indistinguishable from cats.

[Ben Kenobi]

But dogs and cats are both carnivora, and are pretty similar. Given enough time, you could breed dogs that were almost indistinguishable from cats.

Except for the fact that cats cannot digest plant matter.

[onodera]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Darwin tested and proved differentiation in grasses, and was able to show over time, how they changed in order to fill ecological niches. However, the caveat remained in all of these cases, that the species itself remained the same.

This is why I think the viruses are still viruses, this is differentiation, not evolution. One species is not changing into another.

Virus is not a specie.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wasn't aware that there was even a consensus on viral taxonomy.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Except for the fact that cats cannot digest plant matter.

Oh, I'm sure you could breed a cat with that too, provided you knew what you were doing. It's just a matter of having a longer intestinal tract and different enzymes and gut flora.

BTW, does anyone know what happened to Odin?

[Sandman]

It's presumably easier to turn a generalist (dog) into a specialist (cat) than the other way around.