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human life price: speculation or supply and demand?

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  • human life price: speculation or supply and demand?

    This thread is about 2 things.
    One... Watching the news, tv shows etc I get to the point that people can't accept the fact that, from time to time, bad things happen and You just have to accept it. They always trying to find someone to blame for it, and recompensation.
    If You fall on the floor and break your leg - You should accept the fact that sometimes things like this happen, and carry on, not to sue the workers who constructed the pavement.
    If someone dies during operation, it's part of the risk, and even if the surgeon could have done something better, if he didn't do something VERY wrong, You can't blame them. I know it's easy to say, but c'est la vie. People forget about it.
    People think we should live forever and nothing bad should happen to us. People were spoiled by medical care, long life average etc. Recently a reknown polish politician died in a car crash. A tragedy. One of the ladies said it's a pity, but she guesses that all greats must die young. Young? He was 75 or so. I understand her. I want my parents to live forever. And all of my family and friends. But **** happens. It must happen.
    He could have lived longer. 90? 120? perhaps. But he was still lucky to live longer than polish average.

    People stopped treating death and calamities as something natural. A person gets drowned - it's in the news. It's just the way of life, nothing to be suprised with.

    The same is when it comes to army deaths. People volunteer for a mission in Iraq - yet they are very unhappy that they are in risk of dieing there. It's natural. But so is dieing on a war.

    It is all strange, that the bigger supply of human life there is, the biggest price for it there seems to be.

    It's because our society became so safe. Almost every borned child lives through, even disabled ones. Society and state protect us from dieing and killing others () in numerous ways.
    People are dieing less and later than they used to. So they are treating it as their right, instead of priviledge.
    It's like with every policy and ideology, it becomes a caricature of itself and leads to its own distruction. And when it does perish, again there's place for it to grow. Like with animal population, which grows until it goes beyond the limits of what enviroment can support, die out in large numer in result of hunger, and then rebuilds itself:

    social support for elderly --> more elderly and less children (because You don't need children to support you in elderly age anymore. Also, it's You who supports yourself, so you have to work, and invest in yourself, not your children) --> lack of money for social support for elderly...

    Do the humanity have to get into the second part of the cycle I've mentioned to realise that it demands too much, from the state, from life, from reality?
    "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
    I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
    Middle East!

  • #2
    That is simply normal human behaviour - it's the "I can't do anything wrong so it's the other morons that **** things up" syndrome
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

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    • #3
      I agree.
      Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

      When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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      • #4
        I think the price of human life should be calculated on the basis of expected income over expected length of life. This would be weighted to include societal investment, like education and health spending. Expected spending (health care, prison) would be deducted.

        Three quick and dirty examples.

        1) College graduate, just entering work force. Societal investment of 150,000, expected income of 1,650,000. Expected cost (mostly healthcare) of 500,000. Total value of 1.3 million.

        2) High school dropout. Societal investment of 100,000, expected income of 800,000. Expected cost of 350,000. Total value of 550,000.

        3) Recent retiree. Societal investment of 200,000, expected income of 20,000 (works part time, volunteers). Expected cost of 300,000. Total value -80,000.

        These are all made up numbers, but I'm sure the real information exists. It's the sort of thing insurance companies know all about.

        Once you have the dollar (or euro) figure for a person's life, it would be much easier for newcasters in disasters. Instead of 150 people dying in a plane crash, they could come up with a quick number based on the formula, and on the value of the plane, and say "890 million dollars were wasted in a commercial airline accident." Also it would help generate dollar figures for the true costs of a war. Think of the economic hardship Europe faced after losing so many wage earners during the World Wars.

        One problem with it from a human rights perspective is that it clearly cheapens the lives of the poor. Also, what factors do you include? Would you include race in your assessment, or exclude it, even if it might make your results more accurate? Luckily for me, I'm not really a "human rights" kind of guy.

        If I were some sort of sociopathic dictator, this would be my way of figuring out which of my subjects were valuable, and which could be turned into Soylent Green. Maybe it should be a civic option in Civ 5

        As a bonus to this, if a retirement community burns to the ground, and all the younger workers make it out alive, society may very well benefit!
        John Brown did nothing wrong.

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        • #5
          It's also reductionist. People are not just material beings.
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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          • #6
            Felch.

            Well, can you do some calculations on :

            Idiot son of rich people gets a estimated law degree - gets control of multibillion corps wich he destroys while collecting bonuses and "golden handshakes".

            Daughter of poor people getting a cheesy law degree but through lots of ambulance chasing etc manages to destroy reasonable firms while getting rich.

            How would you estimate the overall loss for society if a plane filled with such dropped into the ocean ?

            Poly lawyers of course not included
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
              It's also reductionist. People are not just material beings.
              Render unto Caesar
              John Brown did nothing wrong.

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              • #8
                It would probably outweigh the intial value of the plane, although I think it would be close.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • #9
                  Lawyers are to have their income weighed against societal costs. So you'd pretty much always run a profit turning them into tasty wafers.
                  John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                    It would probably outweigh the intial value of the plane, although I think it would be close.
                    Excellent point. Planes aren't cheap.
                    John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                      It's also reductionist. People are not just material beings.
                      Of course they are - only when these primary needs are covered, they goes beyond (well, I admit there are exceptins, but they are rare and usuallly not sane).
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

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                      • #12
                        Dying in war is not natural because war is not natural.
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                          It's also reductionist. People are not just material beings.
                          Oh really. Can you demonstrate what other kind of beings we are?
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                          • #14
                            Che, I am a reductionist myself, but even I admit that it isn't the only reasonable position (or even the most obvious one necessarily).

                            JM
                            Jon Miller-
                            I AM.CANADIAN
                            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                            • #15
                              Felch

                              Don't forget to discount the numbers to present value!
                              Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

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