Anyone here know about an I phone?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd hope so.

It seems Agathon has never heard of the phenomenon of advertising.

[Lancer]

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'd hope so.

It seems Agathon has never heard of the phenomenon of advertising.

I don't subscribe to the theory, popular on the left (well.. popular in general these days), that consumers are somehow brainwashed into buying things. There is very little evidence for it, and everyone assumes that it is always those other people who are brainwashed by the evil corporations. This vastly overestimates the effect of advertising. I'm sure that Ming would be intrigued to know that people believe he has almost unlimited power over the the minds of human beings.

Advertisers try to get people to buy things using all sorts of means, but people are pretty resistant in general. All of this Adbusters "Society of the Spectacle" crap is just a political device to deflect the blame for consumerism from actual consumers. Yes, consumerism is in many respects a self defeating activity, but you don't need to hypothesize some form of brainwashing to explain why people do it. Thorstein Veblen explained how it works over 100 years ago. The reason more people don't accept his account is that he blames ordinary people for consumerism and our culture is all about shifting blame to other people.

It's not as if Apple's advertising is a good candidate for brainwashing anyway. I think they run three types of ads.

One features wildy gyrating silhouettes and is for the iPods. It's pretty dull stuff, although there was a really cool one with Wynton Marsalis on it. Are consumers supposed to want to be wildly gyrating silhouettes? I want to play like Wynton Marsalis, but I didn't need Apple to tell me that.

Another set of ads feature a pair of gormless idiots taking the piss out of Microsoft. I can't see how these are meant to do anything other than make people laugh (although none of them are really that funny. The only funny Apple commercials were the old Jeff Goldblum ones, and they were funny because he is).

And the adverts for the iPhone (the product that Apple is supposedly brainwashing the masses with), do they show cool people dancing or large breasted women? No. They show someone's hand using the phone to demonstrate its features.

Hardly riveting stuff from the supposed brainwashers in chief.

If you want to see the power of images, check out this install screen for the Zune. This image tells you that using a Zune is like having group sex.

[Imran Siddiqui]

do they show cool people dancing or large breasted women

Aggie does not understand the principles of advertising. Those types of ads don't really work... mostly because no one can figure out later on, what the ad was actually supposed to be selling.

One of the most successful ads in history is the Budweiser frogs which had neither.

To add, while the growth of the fanboi culture may be more than just their television ads (and it is), Apple shows an absolutely brilliant mind when it comes to TV ads: simple, cool, and focused always on the product. People know what they are selling and come away thinking that was cool.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

do they show cool people dancing or large breasted women

Aggie does not understand the principles of advertising. Those types of ads don't really work... mostly because no one can figure out later on, what the ad was actually supposed to be selling.

Sure he does, he bought an iPhone didn't he?

ACK!

[Agathon]

And as for people buying Apple products to be cool, that's just dumb. That might have been the case six or seven years ago, but old people have been buying iPods for the last half decade. Any cultural exclusivity Apple products once had is now long past its sell by date.

There's a few mundane reasons why Apple has been doing well. They had a hit with the iPod and this increased consumer awareness of the company and its products. Their major competitor shipped a software upgrade that a lot of people don't like. The costs of migrating to a new platform are a lot less than they were five years ago. Hardly exciting stuff when you sum it up.

And don't start the usual bull**** about Apple putting stuff in a pretty package. They don't. If you understood anything about design at all, you would understand that unnecessary ornament is the antithesis of the company's modernist design philosophy. If you want unnecessary, then look at the weird curves and ornaments you get on some of some of Dell's machines.

I really have no clue whether you are all playing dumb, or if you really cannot see what is in plain sight.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

do they show cool people dancing or large breasted women

Aggie does not understand the principles of advertising. Those types of ads don't really work... mostly because no one can figure out later on, what the ad was actually supposed to be selling.

No. The problem is that you vastly overestimate the effectiveness of advertising. Apple has always had "cool" ads. In fact, the ones they have now tend to be boring and suck in comparison with some of the old ones. None of this has made much of a difference to sales. The iPod wasn't even heavily advertised until after it took off.

One of the most successful ads in history is the Budweiser frogs which had neither.

And there you have it. Advertising is just an awareness industry. All it does is tell people what is out there and tries to get them to remember it. Advertisers don't have much more power than that. They certainly don't have the power that cultural critics ascribe to them.

To add, while the growth of the fanboi culture may be more than just their television ads (and it is), Apple shows an absolutely brilliant mind when it comes to TV ads: simple, cool, and focused always on the product. People know what they are selling and come away thinking that was cool.

Can't you see how ridiculous this is? Apple's advertising shows people using the product. OMG!!!! Alert the press!!! No other advertiser does this.

Apple has had a loyal following for a long time because it is one of the few companies that has a decent design ethos. It helps that a lot of its customers are actual designers.

[Patroklos]

I have never owned an Apple product before now, I don't intend to buy any other Apple product, the only one I own now is the iPhone, and I like it because of the features and usability.

The "coolness" of it comes from it being a great phone with good features and and awesome interface in a stylish design. Thats, ummm, how any phone gets labeled "cool."

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

People who want one like it because it looks pretty, NOT because the "portable computing platform" bull.

What do you mean, looks pretty? It's a rectangular slab with a touch screen taking up one full side. The UI is a series of square, finger sized icons. It has no unnecessary curves on it and the only piece of decoration is Apple's logo. It looks that way because form follows function. It doesn't even have a colour (although they'll probably make coloured ones for girls next year). If you were going to make a touchscreen device, it is the obvious way it would look.

Have you seen the iMac? It's a rectangular slab with a screen on the front and a metal stand. The Mac Pro? It's got handles and a cheese grater front for ventilation. Or what about the Apple Time capsule? It's a square piece of white plastic with one light on the front. An iPod? It's an oblong with a display and a dial. It's the size it is because that is the size of a packet of cigarettes (i.e. the size that people are used to carrying).

Apple stopped worrying about unnecessary decoration a long time ago (the horrible flower power iMacs probably put them off).

What you call "pretty" is just the operation of the principle that form follows function. Apple products have simple shapes because there's no functional reason to have a complicated shape. Insofar as there is a secret to Apple design, that's it.

I mean, really, who the Hell needs a web browser at all possible times?

A lot of people?

[Agathon]

In other news, Rogers caved to consumer pressure and is now offering a decent data plan for the Canadian iPhone.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
In other news, Rogers caved to consumer pressure and is now offering a decent data plan for the Canadian iPhone.

(But only if you still sign a 3 year contract and only if you sign up before August 31st. It's the fine print, Aggie...)

/me mutters something about brainwashed people...

I also find it funny that Aggie has this tirade against brainwashed people when he is the one constantly *****ing about how bad Vista is, when the only exposure he's ever had to Vista has been Apple's TV commercials. Apple is perhaps the most effective company in history at brainwashing people through creative advertising, and Agathon is so brainwashed he thinks it's everyone else that's brainwashed. OUTSTANDING.

Get a clue, buddy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And don't start the usual bull**** about Apple putting stuff in a pretty package. They don't.

Are you really this dumb or just play it on this forum? So, the iPhone doesn't look like a nice design to you? You must be one of the few.

[q=Pat]The "coolness" of it comes from it being a great phone with good features and and awesome interface in a stylish design. Thats, ummm, how any phone gets labeled "cool."[/q]

"Great phone" doesn't necessarily come into it, unless you aren't refering to call quality, because I can tell you that Motorola's RAZR (the first one) is the poster boy for "cool" phones and the call quality is crap on that thing. But it had an incredibly stylish design that was copied by just about everyone.

No doubt Apple has stylish designs (well, except for Aggie, I guess). That's one of the reason they have their following.

[q=Asher]Apple is perhaps the most effective company in history at brainwashing people through creative advertising, and Agathon is so brainwashed he thinks it's everyone else that's brainwashed. OUTSTANDING.
[/q]

QFT. He's like the archetype of the Steve Jobs lemming.

Reminds me of Kawasaki's stated mission:

http://www.guykawasaki.com/about/index.shtml

My job on this tour of duty was to maintain and rejuvenate the Macintosh cult.

He did seem to do a heck of job on some.

[Aeson]

I personally think most of the stuff Apple puts out isnt all that great looking. Roughly half their product line looks like various sized toasters.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Aeson
I personally think most of the stuff Apple puts out isnt all that great looking. Roughly half their product line looks like various sized toasters.

To be specific, they look like 60s and 70s Braun products.

http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future

[Imran Siddiqui]

Which of course doesn't have to appeal to everyone... personally, I think their laptops look really nice as do their iPods (Classic and Touch). I like that minimalist technique.