Individualism and Judachrislam

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Just curious: how does believing that people are of equal value mean you have to think everyone must achieve the same economic outcome?

You and I are equal under the law. I go off and study history and a liberal arts college. You study, say, electrical engineering. Let's assume we're both reasonably good students.

In this example, you will probably earn more money than I will. I don't see how it has anything to do with your "worth" as a person.

-Arrian

This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the subject, but oh well. I don't really care as much about equal economic outcome as you think I do. I do, however, care about people suffering from poverty, and people exploiting other human beings. This kind of situation only exists because people don't believe that we are all equal.

[Arrian]

I was responding specifically to this:

Ben why are you always defending the rich but you claim to believe that all people are of equal value?

Believe it or not, but I too care about the suffering of poor people. I just differ on the best way to mitigate that suffering.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian

Believe it or not, but I too care about the suffering of poor people.

It's not a question of caring about people's suffering. It's a question of believing they are your equals or not.

I just differ on the best way to mitigate that suffering.

-Arrian

No.

[Arrian]

[Ben Kenobi]

"It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine much more easily;........"

True, and I agree with this, however Adam Smith does say that the "invisible hand", will ensure that wealth is distributed throughout society.

Just because something is more likely does not mean there is no benefit to the poor at all.

Oh, and thanks arrian.

[Jon Miller]

So the rich serve the poor by having the poor work for them...

JM

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian

I take it that you don't get it.

Not wanting someone to suffer doesn't mean ****. It doesn't mean you will do anything, or stop doing anything. Believing they are equals means you will do something.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
True, and I agree with this,

however Adam Smith does say that the "invisible hand", will ensure that wealth is distributed throughout society.

No he doesn't.


"Wherever there is great property there is great inequality."

Just stop now. This is just sad.

Just because something is more likely does not mean there is no benefit to the poor at all.

Explain.

[Felch]

Didn't bother reading past the first dozen or so posts, but perhaps Abrahamism or something similar would be better than Judachrislam. Although I do like Judachrislam, I think it might even be growing on me...

[Ben Kenobi]

No he doesn't.

Yes he does.

"Wherever there is great property there is great inequality."

Also true.

The existence of wealth implies inequality. If there were no inequality, there would be no wealth.

That is how we can talk about the wealth of nations, etc. It's one of the most fundamental principles in economics.

Adam Smith is talking about how with the invisible hand distributes wealth. I never said that it distributes wealth evenly. There is a huge difference between the two concepts. The poor benefit from the operation of the market, but the market doesn't level things. And nor should it.

I could go on and say a rising tide lifts all boats, but I would guess you skipped that part in favour of the class struggle.

[Ben Kenobi]

So the rich serve the poor by having the poor work for them...

Honest question Jon.

Do you believe it is bad to serve another person?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Ben, it is pointless to talk to you.

JM

I think you're going out of bounds.

[Jon Miller]

You are right, pointless to argue with you is what I should have said.

My mistake.

JM

[notyoueither]

I can't think of many people who call themselves capitalists who would be led by the hand through your argument.

But you're right, there are pages of pixels on these forums and others that show many of these arguments are pretty pointless. Not just with Ben though. There's at least one poster in this very thread who is as bad or worse, but it seems to be in fashion to throw rocks at Ben in particular.

[Jon Miller]

I agree. There are many posters who are worse than Ben, and I generally don't enter into discussions with them. The thing is that I have for most of my time on apolyton considered Ben as someone who I had differences with, but who I could argue with (I rarely chose to). I was just expressing my opinion that it is pointless... which is different than what I have held previously.

I and Ben have been on the same side in numerous discussions in the long time we have been on Apolyton.

JM