Individualism and Judachrislam

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Then you should be able to find an endorsement of the class struggle in scripture.

No. I shouldn't have to do that. You know I wish a person could have a conversation with you with out you demanding people show things that don't prove their point.

You see, Christ sees service as something positive not negative. I was rather shocked when you said that serving someone else was a bad thing.

If someone needs my help I'm glad to serve them. I'm glad to serve my child. You don't see how that is different from making some jack ass rich?!

As for hostility, the opening statement of the Manifesto is essentially a declaration of war against Christians as they are a part of the bourgeoisie. Why shouldn't Christians be hostile to a movement that declares them as the enemy and that they need to be pulled down?

It is not a declaration of war. It is a statement that there will exist a world without christianity, as well as other religion, because religion does not trully benefit mankind.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Thrift is a virtue. It's important to make the best use of the gifts that you have been given.

And you believe that rich people are thrifty and the poor are spendthrift, correct?

[Ben Kenobi]

What you are saying is that it's irrelevent that there is disparity in wealth. The Bible clearly states otherwise. Show me where the Bible justifies disparity in wealth.

Show me first where the bible justifies the class struggle.

Did not.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:1-28.

Bull****! They aren't just people like me. They are rich. I am poor. That's the reality that you want me to ignore. They don't need to be served. Furthermore they don't serve me.

They are your brothers and sisters. They are just like you. You need to serve them, because they are your bothers and sisters.

Service isn't a bad thing at all, I don't see why you feel that way. I enjoy helping others out and making their load lighter. As long as you are bitter and demanding that others serve you, you won't have your heart opened.

The way I see it he said to serve each other when our brothers need us to be served, not when they are rich and powerfull.

I said in the PM we are supposed to wash each other's feet. That means getting down on your knees and washing their grimy, dirty feet until they are clean. Then they are to do yours.

That is what Christianity is all about. Whether someone is richer or poorer then you is irrelevant, they are your brothers and sisters, just as you are theirs.

[Ben Kenobi]

And you believe that rich people are thrifty and the poor are spendthrift, correct?

Some who are wealthy are spendthift and many who are poor are thrifty.

Thrift is a virtue regardless of how much money you have.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is not a declaration of war. It is a statement that there will exist a world without christianity, as well as other religion, because religion does not trully benefit mankind.

Then quote the manifesto. I'm tired of being the only one citing evidence while you pull stuff out of your ass.

It's a declaration of war.

[Kidlicious]

I'm just going to stop here. Individualism /= serving the interests of those more powerfull and wealthy than you. Communism means serving yourself.

I respect the views of other christians here, but Ben, you are clearly one of the more authoritarian people I've met.

[Jon Miller]

In Ben's world the poor serve the rich by being the servants of the rich.. the rich serve the poor by employing them as servants.

JM

[Pekka]

Don't you all get it? Bill Hicks was right, we are all just one matter, separated by birth in big bang, conscious, we are the same energy.... we're just particles separated, and more to the point, once CERN gets its results, it will become obvious to the rest of you, that God is Higgs particle AND He is everywhere, the reason we don't find God is because we're trying to look for him. Superposition and all that jazz, the observer thingie.

Not only will God be found there, it will finally be the process of science and religion being one, but this time in satisfying way for everyone, AND on top of that, he gives everyone a home studio for free, original 303s, everything, we can start making music and just jam all night long. It won't be Kumbaayaaa my lord... it'll be more divine, like



to warm things up, to show how your new equipment works. And then it goes to the real thing:

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm just going to stop here. Individualism /= serving the interests of those more powerfull and wealthy than you. Communism means serving yourself.

Yeah, I'm sure communism means you serve yourself first.

I respect the views of other christians here, but Ben, you are clearly one of the more authoritarian people I've met.

Actually, I bet Imran is more authoritarian then me.

Our Political Compass scores are almost identical.

[Ben Kenobi]

In Ben's world the poor serve the rich by being the servants of the rich.. the rich serve the poor by employing them as servants.

Jon, why do you have to distort what I say?

I don't get it.

I said that everyone should serve each other, as Christ called us to do.

[Jon Miller]

How does such a view, where rich and poor equally serve eachother, be consistent with a view some people being rich and others being poor is the way things ought to be?

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

How does such a view, where rich and poor equally serve eachother, be consistent with a view some people being rich and others being poor is the way things ought to be?

Inequality is a fact of life. Some people are 6 feet tall. Some are 5 and some are 4. Some people are wealthier then others. "should" doesn't enter the picture anywhere, and it is based on the same envy that you would have for someone taller then you. We all have different talents in life. Christ says so. The question we are each given is how to best make use of them.

The other thing, is that no one has all talents, and that our talents are complementary with one another. You can be given a great deal, and do little, or have little and do a considerable amount. We have two choices in life. We can wail about how it's so unfair that person A got a free ride out of life, or we can try to make do as best as we can with what we have.

Just because one person is considered to be wealthier, and more fortunate then another person, doesn't excuse us from our obligation to serve him as we would a brother. That means doing things for him, and loving him, as we would expect to be treated ourselves. Wealth is irrelevant to this commandment. I'm not talking about employment, I'm talking about loving one another as a brother. That's all.

[Jon Miller]

So how are you loving your brother if you are exploiting him in a capitalistic system?

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

So how are you loving your brother if you are exploiting him in a capitalistic system?

Which question are you asking here?

1. How are you loving your brother if you exploit him?

or

2. Is capitalism exploitation?

[Jon Miller]

Capitalism is exploitation. Capitalists say this. How can Christians serve their borther by exploiting them?

JM