Honda to produce hydrogen fuel-cell cars this year.

[Dauphin]

Yeah, water is pretty heavy. It's fallings from several kilometres up too. With the force it gains in the fall it's probably enough to knock you unconscious without proper protective gear.

[Krill]

Now I understand why all those American Hand melon players wear such heavy helmets.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Krill
Did you just agree with me?

...

Originally posted by Krill
hydrogen isn't hard to produce. No it isn't... It's just storing it that is the problem. ...and yes it is, in that order...

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
...or wait 'till it rains.

A car that washes itself.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
No it isn't and yes it is, in that order. Hell, you can use home solar panels or wind generators to make your own hydrogen gas to fuel your non-existent hydrogen fuel-cell car right now. There's even a group claiming to have made a simple aluminum-based generator just recently, but it is vaporware until demonstrated otherwise. On the storage side, there have been improvements that don't require super-chilled solutions, but nothing is particularly ready for primetime in vehicles. If Honda and others are serious about offering hydrogen cars in the next decade or so, they'll get on the asses of the oil companies about fitting their gas station with hydrogen pumps nation-wide in preparation, none of this namby-pamby photo-op hubris or this "free market will decide" bullsh*t. The stations are already there, plenty of them can be remodeled to offer one pump for hydrogen gas and the others remain petrol. It will take years, but such preparations should be done and ready in many markets by the time hydrogen cars are available for purchase, instead of just select, meaningless markets that no one cares about. I mean really, they couldn't even go fully into LA, but rather an outlying area? Yeah, TOTALLY ready for primetime.

Of course, without the cars, why would anyone build a bunch of hydrogen stations?

[DRoseDARs]

Try re-reading that before asking that question.

[DaShi]

I can't. It gave me a headache the first time.

[DRoseDARs]

Then please point to the section where I said building new stations and not just replacing a single pump (out of the usual 4-6 pumps at most mid-sized stations) at existing stations.

The automotive industry sees the writing on the wall and is already planning for a hydrogen economy. As I said in that post, if they're serious they'll talk to the oil companies and have them agree to start phasing-in some hydrogen availability in the next few years in more markets instead of waiting. It's a chicken-vs-egg problem: No one will by H-cars if they can't fuel them and oil companies won't, of their own accord, offer hydrogen if no one is driving H-cars. The automotive and oil industries have to work together on this.

This isn't like the beginning of the 20th century when people did just fine with horse-drawn carriages. Things were slower and the economy was acclimated to that. Petrol stations spread across the landscape at their own pace and things speed up to adjust. Now we absolutely depend on the speed delivered by powered transportation, so waiting for H-availability to slowly spread across the landscape doesn't make sense. The locations are already there, the ability to offer a minimum availability of hydrogen is already there (and again, a single pump at a given station out of 4-6 pumps at many stations and it doesn't even have to be at EVERY station, just a few in a given market spread across several companies), and the H-cars are already on the horizon and should be available to the general consumer market by the time gas stations across the landscape have had a chance to modify their stations in preparation. Those modifications won't happen overnight nor will they occur all at once, the process will be drawn out over years. Time enough for H-cars to become consumer vehicles instead of leased-toys for Hollywoodians.

The vast majority of vehicles on the road will remain petrol-based deep into this century, but the sooner gas stations start offering at least one H-pump the easier it will be to speed the process up and the automakers know this. It's about their bottom line and it's in their best interests to do that. And the oil industry doesn't have to lose out in this. They'll offer both forms of fuel just as they offer regular, diesel, and even ethanol-blends now. They all know that public opinion will turn against petrol so it's better to get a jump on it sooner rather than later and risk NOT making a profit on the H-economy sooner rather than later.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Then please point to the section where I said building new stations and not just replacing a single pump (out of the usual 4-6 pumps at most mid-sized stations) at existing stations.

But that wasn't my point. Even putting in pumps is silly, if there are no cars to. . .pump.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Krill

Originally posted by Elok
Yes, it emits water, but I somehow don't think that water is going to contaminate the atmosphere. It's my experience that water vapor condenses into clouds and falls down once there's a certain amount up there (one of the little secrets of life on Earth). I suppose it might make our cities unbearably muggy, but that's it.

Are you sure you want to live in the same climate that the UK has? BHecause the last thing I want is more frigging rain thatyouverymuch.

I think every driver in the D.C. area would have to be using a hydrogen car to make enough rain to put us on a par with the UK. Now, if a single person in the Seattle area uses one it may well be enough to unleash a biblical-style flood on the area. Serves 'em right, the coffee-sipping hipster freaks.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Elok
Of course it just passes on the pollution to whatever factory is manufacturing the hydrogen, unless we have a LOT of green power plants running. That was my point with the "tidal plants" remark (no, Snoopy, I'm not that clever).

Electrical plants produce a lot less pollution for the same amount of power than gasoline engines. Simply shifting cars fuel source to electricity would prevent lots of pollution.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by DaShi
But that wasn't my point. Even putting in pumps is silly, if there are no cars to. . .pump.

Well, if you're not going to read anything beyond that sentence or the entirety of that post either, I'm not going to bother responding to you. I've already explained it twice.

[axi]

Do you think burning hydrocarbons doesn't emit water vapour?

C8H18+12.502-->8CO2+9H20

[GePap]

Screw fuel cell cars, we should be pumping money into electric vehicles.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by axi
Do you think burning hydrocarbons doesn't emit water vapour?

C8H18+12.502-->8CO2+9H20

Indeed... I wonder what the energy differential is (ie, whether you have more energy per H2O released from C8H18 + 12.5 O2 or from 9H2 and 4.5 O2)? I presume the former has more energy than the latter released, but I don't actually know the details... Krill?